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Re: [GZG] [SG3]: What if?

From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@m...>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:28:26 -0500
Subject: Re: [GZG] [SG3]: What if?

At 12:03 PM -0600 1/30/08, John Atkinson wrote:
>Depends on the situation--and remember that it isn't man vs. man, it
>should be platoon vs. squad.

Or squad vs section. :-)
>I don't have to charge it, since I've gone in Red, and 1) doubt anyone
>will get close enough to sever a limb, 2) have a full magazine to
>offload into him anyway, and 3) have a squad of buddies behind me.

True, door entry situations are a problem. 
Magazine changes can take an eternity. There are 
rational and effective ways to trip your stack of 
men up as they enter. A secondary barrier after 
the door with sandbags and other materials to 
stop ballistic rounds would be good. Nails 
through boards up the stairs to stop you getting 
up to the second floor is also an old but good 
method. And of course basement and 2nd floor 
mouse holes to get out once they've ceded the 
ground to you. We are talking 1st world force vs 
1st world force here though, not joe partisan vs 
the Storm Troopers.

>Against a mob of civilians, yes.  Against troops, less so.

Less so, but when everyone's been in the 
firefight for a while and everyone's scampering 
for more ammo, it has carried the day in more 
than one battle from WWII and later even. Mount 
Tumbledown is a good example I think. The ARgies 
even had MGs and snipers and the brits still 
swarmed them in close fighting.

>Sure--if your ROE doesn't permit you to open fire, or you have a
>situation where rioters you don't wish to kill are making a nuisance
>of themselves.  Against guys with AKs who are shooting at you, return

Now days it seems like ROE have gotten pretty sticky and confining.

>  > they stuck a few of the folks responsible too.
>>  The British in WWII did routinely carry the day
>>  with bayonet charges against Germans (no slouches
>>  when it came to infantry attacks) when everyone
>>  had ammo running low and it was win or loose time.
>Only if there were no MGs in play.  See: Battle of the Somme.

Not necessarily.

Subedar Lal Bahadur Thapa (Magar)
  2nd King Edward VII's Own Gurkha Rifles
  Resse-es- Zouai, Tunisia, N. Africa, April 1943

  On the night of 5-6 April, during the silent 
attack on the Resse-es-Zouai, Subadar Lal Bahadur 
Thapa was Second-in-Command of D Company. The 
garrison of the outer posts were all killed by 
Subadar Lal Bahadur Thapa and hi men by kukri or 
bayonet in the first rush and the enemy

then opened very heavy fire straight down the 
narrow enclosed pathway and steep arena sides. 
Subadar Lalbahadur Thapa led his men on and 
fought his way up the narrow gully straight 
through the enemy's fire, with little room to 
manoeuvre, in the face of intense and sustained 
machine-gun concentrations and the liberal us of 
grenades by the enemy.

  Next the machine-gun posts were dealt with, 
Subadar Lal Bahadur Thapa personally killing two 
men with his kukri and two more with his 
revolver. This Gurkha Officer continued to fight 
his way up the narrow bullet-swept approaches to 
the crest. He and two riflemen managed to reach 
the crest, where Subadar Lal Bahadur Thapa then 
secured the whole feature and covered his 
company's advance up the defile.

>Nope--because you are going to have to decide which you want to use at
>any given time, the firearm or the sharp stick.  A bayonet allows you
>to do both, which means you don't have to 100% rely on getting to
>within 3 feet of me.

They certainly provide you with an option for 
silent attack. Assume for 1st World SG3 level 
tech that the light infantry have their heavy 
blades/axes with very sharp modern edges, good 
but light armor for protection from fragments and 
suits to mask their IR signatures against NVG and 
the like that the more heavily equipped but 
radiating troops will be carrying.

I'm not saying they'll always win, but I think, 
depending on the terrain and mission as well as 
time of day, that you'll very much have a rock 
scissors paper type problem which will make 
certain situations more useful for light highly 
trained and motivated infantry. Places where you 
cannot deploy power armor or where it would be a 
Ryan Gill
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