Re: (DS): Systems per Class

I think all SF rules with design methodologies are poorly designed or
executed as are most historical and (crawls out on limb) ALL fantasy
efforts.  Reality is too complex for a reasonably simple game to try and
take in.  You compromise and there is where you get dinged.

I am not saying not change it in house rules if you want but I am saying
that 'reflecting reality' is a Holy Grail or even a chimera that many a
game pursues too closely to it's ruin as a game.  Hell, why not get John
A., Hilal and Derek together and get them to agree on what is a SAW and
what is a LMG along with how to model them in SG 2?  I think we had that
conversation before and before and before and...  

As to DS 2, which is what I believe this thread started about,	we have
to remember that modern composite armors may (it's SF we have no idea of
what the 'reality' of the future might be) may be paper thin
effectiveness compared to what nations use when DS 2 supposedly occurs. 
We might have "Ballistic Cloth" as in Space MArines (pre-GW rules) by
then.  Likely? No but if it's a basic staple for the infantry (as
defined
in the game) then Collapsium is possibly the AFV armor of choice.  First
you need to decide what is the baseline (or 'virtual reality' if you
prefer) of the game.

I just find trying to model reality in future (far more then near)
happening SF games becomes rules oriented, not game oriented.  YMMV.

Gracias,
Glenn

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Brian B
<greywanderer987@yahoo.com> writes:
>So if the rule is poorly conceived or executed, why
>not change or eliminate it?
>--- owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
><warbeads@juno.com> wrote:
>> No, it's not.  It's a reflection of the reality that
>SF rules have great
>> difficultly modeling all the wacky things real
>armies do with their
>> equipment.  And staying simple.  I left out the
>smiley face 8^) so that's
>> my error.  Lots of 'real world' AFVs that violate DS
>2 design rules. 
>> 
>> And the SG 2 rules don't really reflect
>LMGs/MMGs/maybe HMGs very well. 
>> Or some would say at all.
>> 
>> Rules for games are at best attempts at reality but
>in SF (and Fantasy)
>> reality is not the point of the game.
>> 
>> YMMV.
>> 
>> Gracisa,
>> glenn
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Brian B
>> <greywanderer987@yahoo.com> writes:
>> >Thats a cop-out, especially when were talking about
>a
>> >rule that makes the SF vehicles LESS capable than
>the
>> >RL.
>> >--- owner-gzg-l@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
>> ><warbeads@juno.com> wrote:
>> >> granted but it's reality, this is SF.
>> >> 
>> >> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:27:39 -0400 Ryan Gill
>> ><rmgill@mindspring.com>
>> >> writes:
>> >> >At 5:20 PM -0400 7/20/04, John K Lerchey wrote:
>> >> >>Hm.  I don't see how this is a "consensus"
>issue,
>> >unless my reading 
>> >> >>comprehension skills are suffering badly.  I
>just
>> >re-read the 
>> >> >>vehicle design rules.  It clearly states that
>you
>> >may have one 
>> >> >>*weapon system* per size point of the vehicle. 
>It
>> >says nothing 
>> >> >>about limits on non-weapons other than the fact
>> >that they use 
>> >> >>capacity.
>> >> >
>> >> >Merkava Tank. Class 3
>> >> >MDC4, APSW (Coax), APWS (TC Pintle), APSW
>(Loader
>> >Pintle), APSW (.50 
>> >> >Coax), APSW (60mm Mortar).
>> >> >
>> >> >M113 ACAV, Class 2
>> >> >APSW (TC Pintle), APSW (Rear Troop M60), APSW
>(Rear
>> >Troop M60)
>> >> >
>> >> >Heck look at some of the other Isreali armor. It
>> >tends to have more 
>> >> >MGs than a German Infantry Company.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >-- 
>> >> >--
>> >>
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