Tending to wander OT as I feared Re: Fiji in space but back on earth, oy ve?!?!?

On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:34:14 -0700 (PDT) John Leary
<john_t_leary@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>--- Glenn M Wilson <warbeads@juno.com> wrote:
>>	b) In descending order the social pecking order
>> seemed to be
>-------
>The correct term is racism, 

When we get to racism per se we are bound to go OT, not that I don't
mind
discussing it off list, without great effort to refer things to the
Tuffleyverse.  And, to edge OT briefly,  I find historically that the
number and classes of races has varied in the sources I have accessed
between 3 and 5 between 1890 and today.  And that is just in American
sources.  In scripture Paul calls his Jewish ancestors and
contemporaries
a 'race' in at least one translation I can think of.  

Basically Race, anytime we go past Human, is a fiction we invent to make
life less confusing - "US" and "Them."	Hence it is something many hold
dearly to because it a human trait to have faith in things that are
simplifying/pleasing/gratifying/ego enhancing even if we suspect they
might not be truly universal or hold up to scrutiny.

and this order applies
>throughout Asia.
>

I am unsure if you mean racism exists all through Asia (agreed, it's a
human failing) or that this order is the same in all of Asia - i.e.,
China, Japan, and Indonesia have the same order of favoritism?	( I have
an ethnically Chinese Indonesian friend at church (directs both my
daughters' choirs and sings with my wife in the Chancel Choir)	who
would
tell you that being Chinese in Indonesia is definitely	_not_  a good
thing (but there are others who have it worse.)   And I think the
article
that called the Chinese the "Jews of SE Asia" pretty much hit it on the
head, Singapore not withstanding.

>>		1) Ethnic Chinese
>>		2) Ethnic Japanese
>>		3) Ethnic Philippinos
>>		4) Ethnic Portuguese
>
>The bottom of the Hawian list is anyone in the
>military.
>

Heck, it was the bottom of the list in the towns around Sheppard AFB,
TX,
in the 1970's!	

We had lists of facilities (restaurants, not just the usual 'watering
holes') that we were forbidden to go to  by the base command because it
was deemed 'unsafe' to eat there if you were identified as USAF.  We had
a young (Caucasian, East Coast state, I forget which, maybe upstate New
York,we had a lot of those in my flight) guy who went to one of these
places to have a dinner off base, became involved in an incident, the
other people were cited by the police as instigators, and he still  got
an article 15.	And rightly so because it was a 'bad thing' to be USAF
in
those towns.  Completely different from the situation around Lackland
AFB
where you were generally appreciated, there were reasonable numbers of
retired USAF types in the community who were considered 'pillars' of the
community, and there was generally good relationship between the base
and
the community.	

Heck, a few of my friends who were Seventh Day Adventists (not exactly
common in the USAF or around Sheppard AFB)  found  that when they went
to
church in the community just outside the base  (we all decided to attend
a service at a local Lutheran church in town because it was reputedly
'military friendly' although it mostly to get off base for the ones who
weren't technical training students but were single) the only people who
were interested in socializing with them were the Pastor's family.  I
guess that would be "Uniformism'? <grin>

Human beings find all kinds of ways to divide up into us and them.  NSL
versus FSE in the Tuffleyverse is a classic in my non-European mind.  

We had pecking orders in Los Angeles.  They varied by community
frequently.  There were places where I said I was Caucasian (true
although not completely true) and there were places where I let it be
known I was latino (on my mother's side) because it made life "S and S' 
- Safer and Simpler.  Never mentioned the Cherokee part of the
background
because it would only have been a negative during those years (1950's
and
early 1960's.)	And Southern California was basically pretty laid back
about such issues most of the time, unlike here in Saint Louis, MO. 
Definite NSL territory! <grin>

As I see the Tuffleyverse background, John seems to have replaced Racism
with "Supra-national" groups (obviously fictitious NAC, almost as
improbable ESU, NSL, FSE, unlikely and probably unwieldy IC, etc.)
because this is more palatable to our 20th Century minds.  Almost
certainly an improvement for the game setting.

I guess Xenophobia is Humanity's reflex to replacing 'supra-nationalism'
which 'replaced' overt racism?	Not that i have a complaint about the
lack of racism in the Tuffleyverse, I just think it is an interesting
'change' in the human condition in the game parameters.  Has a certain
appeal in some ways to me.  Although I doubt it ever could actually
happen.

>Bye for now,
>John L.
>

Unless others continue this thread, I plan to let it either wither or go
off list at this point.

Gracias,
Glenn
.
6 mm miniatures rule!  Well, anyway in my mind they do!
.

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