Re: GenCon Plans Anyone?

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>Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 07:47:48 -0500
>From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@att.net>
>Subject: Re: GenCon Plans Anyone?
>
>On Tue, 06 Aug 2002 23:46:54 -0500, Scott Siebold
<gamers@ameritech.net>
>wrote:
>
>>At one time this was the big convention of the year for ALL wargamers
>>(role playing, miniatures and board gamers). After the "role players"
>>(TSR) took over all the miniature games got stuck in side rooms where
>>only those playing the game could see the figures. 
>>
>
>I attended GenCon from 1995 to 2000. Being a roleplayer as well, I
could see
>the need for roleplaying taking over larger areas. However, in 1995
through
>1997 the miniatures games typically had better locations than the
roleplaying
>games. They were in rooms above the dealer's room at the old MECCA
facility,
>but that was a better location than the arena, for instance. 
>
I started roleplaying with something called Dungeons and Dragons when I 
was in service (a
friend purchased issue 1 of the Dragon and I started with issue 3). I 
even programmed
character generation for traveler on to a 4K (that's 4 thousand 
characters) computer from
Radio Shack. The reason I stopped was that the people that I regularly 
played with were
into miniatures and those people I role played with at conventions just 
seemed to have
no perspective (someone had a character that was carrying around 10,000 
gold pieces
who didn't have the slightest idea of it's weight while someone else had

Thors Hammer
that he'd gotten after "killing" Thor).

Actually there was an attempt made by the GenCon people to get the 
miniatures events back
the first year that Origins was held at GenCon. HMGS members who would 
put on events
had no problem getting pre registered and location was excellent. The 
problems started the
following year. I signed up to put on events (I think it was two games 
that year) and then
had to pay FULL registration. About two months after the convention I 
finally got the
check back for the registration.

>
>
>I remember in 1995 playing in a number of historical games, including a
DBA
>tournament. Miniatures started getting shunted aside when MECCA was
demolished
>and the new facility came "online". They only had half the new place
set up,
>and still had to use Bruce Hall and the Arena for some things. In 1998
they
>stuck miniatures into the bottom level of the Arena. No one could find
it. In
>fact it was so bad, some folks (mostly dealers, I think) produced "I
Found the
>Miniatures Events at GenCon" buttons and handed them out for free.
Historical
>games had been on the decline at this point. What was busier in this
phase of
>GenCon was card games, though the bulk of people were still playing
>roleplaying games. In 1999 it was slightly better... we were in the
arena
>proper, which gave us more space and you could breathe, but didn't
result in
>much walk-in traffic.
>
>
>>The miniature gamers
>>rebelled and went out and formed HMGS (Historical Miniature Gaming
>>Society). 
>>
>
>I don't think this is true. I heard from one of the HMGS chapter
presidents
>that they rebelled over what happened at Origins, not GenCon.
Historicon was a
>direct response to Origins.
>
I was at the formation meeting for HMGS in the midwest. There were 
problems with Origins but
since Origins wondered around the country it didn't have that much 
impact in the midwest. GenCon
was here (midwest) and it what caused the most complaints.

Strangely enough the midwest chapter never had the total anti SciFi that

the east cost had. It was
the east coast that pushed for a total ban on SciFi and Fantasy games. 
The only SciFi game allowed
at Historicon was a youth game that was restricted to those under
fifteen.

As a side point a Leonardo game, that I played in, was fully allowed at 
Historicon where everything
that Leonardo had dreamed up was allowed.  My cog (as in sailing ship) 
took on a canon firing
submersible and was attacked by a manpowered helicopter. I guess that 
this "historical" game had
it's cloaking device on.

>>My SciFi games had to be classified as "future history" to be
>>put on at Little Wars ( midwest convention) but the East con
(historicon)
>>banned all SciFi and Fantasy in a knee-jerk reaction. In recent times
the
>>ban on SciFi and Fantasy has been lifted at historicon.
>>
>
>This is, in fact, one of the reasons GenCon and Origins is a good type
of
>convention. You can play historicals _and_ science fiction/fantasy. I
see why
>they banned sci-fi/fantasy. They didn't want the convention overrun by
>Warhammer games. There is a certain bit of snobbery in historical
gamers.
>
I think that DandD and Traveler had more of an impact then Warhammer. 
When HMGS was formed
Warhammer didn't have that much popularity. I suspect it was more like 
"if they don't want us we don't
want them" attitude.

> Oh,
>and there are a number of historical gamers with strong religious
beliefs who
>think that fantasy games -- with their magic component -- are somehow
evil.
>
I didn't see any ban on "Nuclear Destruction" game (yes it is a card 
game but I saw it at Historicon).

> (I
>had an interesting discussion with someone over this...) At the same
time,
>there are plenty of folk who prefer to game sci-fi and fantasy because
they
>see more of a disconnect from "reality". It's easier to see NSL
troopers or
>Elven archers cut down than someone who could easily represent a grand
father
>or father.
>
>>Except for the time I was in the army I attended all of the gencon
>>conventions since gencon II..
>>
>
>WotC did realize the importance of bringing board games and miniatures
games
>back "into the fold" as it were. Board games were important because
WotC was
>bought by Hasbro. It will be interesting to see what will happen now
that
>Hasbro has sold off GenCon.
>
I  will go to Historicon (about 750 miles for four days) because I can 
try new miniatures periods and rules.
I will go to GenCon (about 90 miles for 1 day) to make purchases and to 
see what's new. I will not go
GenCon in Indianapolis (about 200 miles) for only 1 day.

A message was sent out by the president of HMGS midwest to get members 
to put on games at GenCon.
I talked to him at Historicon and got the impression that not too many 
people were taking him up.
I just do not like having to submit my game to "be reviewed" before I  
pay to attend the convention and
if everything goes OK I'll be paid back in a couple of months.

>