DS2/SG2 harminization - replies to Brian and Andrew

Re snipers:
Andrew, your interpretation seems to represent 
only the snipers with a HAMR. Many sniper 
teams do not use a HAMR (they are heavy, 
aren't probably as accurate for mid range 
shooting, and probably can't be silenced though 
I'm not positive on that last). Most teams use 
something like the US M-24 (I think that's the 
new one) which is a modified Remington 700. 
An excellent weapon. In the future, I can see 
Gauss rifles and Laser rifles being used. Sniper 
ops can involve taking out material targets 
(transformers, AA assets, etc) but they can 
involve the simple task of removing enemy 
snipers, enemy units blocking an advance in 
built up terrain or fortifications, and for pinning 
an enemy that is advancing towards you. And 
they do kill valuable junior officers and noncoms. 

I'm going to think about combining some of what 
you wrote with some of what I wrote, since we 
both appear to have part of the puzzle. 

I'm not sure there is any reason to suggest that 
a HAVR/HAMR is capable of shooting 1.5x that 
of an APSW. I think the longest sniper shot on 
record I'm aware of (By Carlos Hatchock, 
multiple shots required, using a sandbagged .50 
M2HB) was well over 1200m, but I think most 
military sniping is actually conducted (even AM 
stuff) at 100-400m (with preference on 100m if 
you can get that close). I hadn't realized the SF 
snipers liked to shoot from that close, but as Los 
pointed out to me, beyond that, windage and 
movement of target etc. start to introduce a 
decent chance of a miss. You _can_ make 
800m shots, but it is hardly SOP. 

My reason for suggesting dummy counters can't 
move is that I don't think hidden snipers in SG2 
can.....

As for how a sniper team plays on the game.... 
they'd usually be an attachment at (at the 
minimum) company level, but more likely 
battalion. A battalion might have 3-6 2 man 
teams. But sniper ops really fall into a variety of 
categories depending on the operational 
doctrine of the force using them. In some cases, 
like the French, they stick "marksmen" (which 
aren't really full fledged snipers) in their line 
squads. In other cases, like some of the US 
Marine Divisions in Vietnam, the snipers were 
given lots of independence and ran their own 
missions quite often with other support elements 
to support them (a squad for security and 
sometimes air and arty on call - snipers make 
good spotters). 

I'd think in the DS2 model, they'd be attached 
directly to the battlegroup commander, thus 
justifying them as a whole separate unit on the 
board, and probably you would not see more 
than 2 or 3 teams present _at_most_ because 
the forces on a DS2 board tend to be company 
or reinforced company size, rarely reaching 
battalion size. Plus that freedom frees them from 
unit integrity issues with other units, which is 
good given they'll be able to fire over a fair 
distance thus they can stay outside of enemy 
infantry fire range. 

Re Brians comments on GMS/P:
I get the impression from Oerjan (unless he 
cares to pipe up) that a GMS/P has about the 
same warhead as GMS/L, only the sighting and 
propulsion behind it is different. Ergo range is 
probably the big factor (I'd bet many shoulder 
fired missiles can't reach 2400m due to the 
inability to target or the lack of fuel). I'd be 
tempted to keep the range to 18". 24" makes 
them very dangerous. Anyone know what the 
range for a Javelin is today? The problem here 
is that even with some improvement in propellent 
technology, you've still go the weight/size trade 
off (vs. range) that makes a GMS/P a normal 
squad weapon. For longer range, you NEED the 
Heavy Weapon because it contains the fuel! 

So we have (or should probalby have):

IAVR	short range (400-600m), punchy (2 
chits), immune to ECM or EW (but should be 
stoppable by PDS according to Oerjan). Troop 
can carry multiples of these and use them for 
close in tank defence. 

GMS/P  longer range (1800m), punchy (2 
chits), affected by ECM, PDS, ADS and EW. 
Troop can put one of these in a big squad and 
fire it in place of squad fire (like an IAVR) but 
has limited shots. Can also be put in two man 
teams. 

GMS/L  real long range (3600m) (for infantry... 
still only middling for vehicle range weaponry), 
punchy (3 chits), affected by ECM, PDS, ADS, 
EW. Troop can have one of these with tripod in 
place of normal infantry weapons (retain close 
in defence weapons). Limited shots. Can't really 
be put in a normal rifle squad as an "alternate 
weapon" as it is just a bit too big (as is the 
ammo). 

Yes, I agree GMS/P should be limited in number 
of shots (3 or 4) and that they should be 
affected by PDS and ECM and ADS etc. I'd 
suggest the 2 man GMS/P team I suggested with 
4 shots should probably cost 10/15/20 (for 
various guidance levels). This little team would 
only take 3 HTK and have close combat only 
weapons. 

Putting a GMS/P into a normal rifle squad (with 
say 4 shots) might add another 5/10/15 to the 
cost of the rifle team (expensive, but you're 
getting a team capable of GMS fire, IAVR fire, 
squad rifle fire, and close combat). 

As for EW, you make a couple of good points in 
terms of limiting range (12" in DS2 is fine with 
me) and in saying that you should have to see a 
GMS shot fired to jam it (though I note this is 
_NOT_ a requirement in SG2 - justification being 
I guess the prevalent nature of sensors on the 
battlefield). I'll look at cobbling something 
together with this input you've given me shortly. 

Then of course, post it so the lions can rip at it. :)