Re: tactics vs a slow mover with high arcs

Replying to both Glen's posts here:

> I've been playing FT for months with and against this guy.  It's a
> rare battle that I win against him.  The few times was with pulse
> torps that had a high percentage of hits (I always have 1 out of
> the bunch miss, even at point blank range) and I have the initiative.
> We design our own ships using FB (if we wanted to play with crappy 
> pre-designed ships we'd play SFB... *cough*).  

<chuckle> Funny, that - the more I play with the FB designs (which has
been quite a bit lately, for various reasons), the more I like them
(except the NAC, of course <g>). Yes, one-trick gimmick fleets are
easier to use, but in my experience they're also easier to counter once
you know which gimmick it is. The FB fleets are flexible enough to
allow more than one tactic per nation <g>

> His designs are
> based on the miniatures he's using: WW1-WW2 era naval ships.
> Move 2 (now he's gone to move 1), 5 arc class-3 beams with some
> class-2s (the secondarys) and class-1s, 

5-arc C3 batteries are about as bad you can get, damage-per-Mass wise.
(OK, really big beam batteries - multi-arc C4s, C5s etc - are worse
still.)
If you use 3-arc C2 batteries, you can match him die for die once you
get within 24mu, even if you have thrust 6... and with his lousy
acceleration rates, there's no reason why you should remain in range
band 3 (ie, unable to fire with C2 batteries) for more than one turn. 

> point defenses and each "BB" has a an area defense,

With thrust-1 he needs heavy point defences and ADFC on all ships,
since it is virtually impossible to miss his ships with SMs. However,
you can use that against him as well - if you don't use missiles or
fighters (except for a few Interceptor squadrons to chew up *his*
fighters and missiles), his heavy point defences are wasted :-)

Brian mentioned "edge-of-the-world". I always play with floating edges
unless one edge represents some vital terrain (ie, a planet). Deep
space has no edges :-)

> weak hulls with lots of armor (he saw
> that he lots of armor left upon the first threshold and he commented
> that he may go with average hulls and less armor).

Both are good choices. Weak with heavy armour is very good as long as
the enemy doesn't use pulse torps (unless he's Indy, in which case any
hull type is effective against pulse torps  ;-) ), or the enemy is
Aaron Teske and uses any weapon which inflicts re-rolls <g> Average
with moderate armour isn't as effective against beams, but is less
vulnerable against armour-skipping weapons or Teske fields.

> Since I have a
> lot of "Star Trek" and SFB minis my designs are based on what I
> think they should have, with many variations.  I hate move 2 ships.
> Move 4 or better for me.  

Sounds a bit slow to me. I prefer thrust 6-8 designs :-)

> I don't know why I keep trying, though, I can't seem to get a handle
on 
> cinematic movement.

Took me a while to figure it out as well, way back when.

> Anyone offering Manuevering 101?    :)

Manuevering 101 for Cinematic (I *know*, the table will be mangled by
everybody's email programs, but I'll try anyway):

If you make an...:	you'll end up:	at an angle of: facing:
1-point turn		V*0.97mu	15 degrees	30 degrees
2    "	     "		V*0.97mu	45 degrees	60 degrees
3    "	     "		V*0.87mu	60 degrees	90 degrees
4    "	     "		V*0.87mu	90 degrees	120 degrees
from your initial position.

V is the speed you have after this turn's accelerating/decelerating
"angle" is the angle you deviate from straight ahead
"facing" is how much the ship model has turned.

I could list the values for higher-point turns as well, but unless you
play Kra'Vak I doubt if you need that :-/

45 degrees and 90 degrees are easy to figure out. 60 degrees is
somewhere inbetween, 30 degrees is close to but somewhat less than 45
and 15 degrees fairly clsoe to straight ahead <g>

> Forget me
> using Nova Cannons or Wave Guns, I end up pointing those things
> at my allied ships more often than the enemy.  Besides, I must have
> circles with a sign pointing to the center saying "Nova Cannons and
> Wave Guns here" on my ships that only the enemy can see.  I've
> been called the "Wave Gun Attractor" at least once.  *sigh*

Predictable maneuvers, it seems. Hurts, it does, particularly on small
tables.

> Oh, and this guy has this thing about rolling lots of 6s against me.

No tactics help against *that*, I'm afraid. Steal his dice?

> So I'm tired of being the wimp that bully Steve picks on so any 
> suggestions for tactics?  Any ideas for improving tactical 
> maneuverability?  Although I had a thought about that yesterday that
I 
> should plan for two turns ahead on the approach shot so have to give
it a > try.

If his ships are only thrust-1, you know fairly well where they'll be
in two turns. The problem is knowing where *your* ships are in two
turns, particularly if you're flying fast with high-thrust ships <g>
Been there, done that... and believe me, there are very few things in
Full Thrust as annoying as having your sub-pack strike boats moving in
at speed 40 only to overshoot their targets by 2mu :-/

> This brings up another point.  I think increased arc costs are too
cheap
> compared to maneuver cost.  Or is it that I'm just terrible at >
maneuvering?

Probably your maneuvering, I'm afraid :-/ 'Course, since I was involved
in determining the increased arc masses and my input was based on my
maneuvering in FT2, I might be a bit biased on this issue ;-) 

If you play Vector, you'll probably find that the increased arc costs
are too *high* instead. The difference between Cinematic and Vector is
quite considerable.

> ------------------------
> I got some side-arcs 3-beam or 4-beam ships (similiar designs, just
> a matter of number of beams and the 3-beamer has double screens).
> I just see using them as a long and boring "plinking" game.  But it
> may be the way I have to go against him.

It is one way. Difficult on a fixed table, though - you'll run out of
table sooner or later.
 
> Space ships & real life?  They currently don't mix.  :)

Space ships and realistic military situations do mix, though.

> Unless we play in a campaign and make the FTL speed related to 
> maneuver drives, I can't see imposing this on anyone.
> And what would be the point in scenario based combats?

More tactical challenge for both sides. (...which translates as "more
fun" <g>)

> All his ships have the same speed, or would travel at the speed of
the > slowest one.

"Here's a vital convoy. If you don't intercept it (capture and/or
destroy), you lose. Badly."

You play the convoy, he plays the raiders :-)

> On missile boats, tried it.  I have this knack for hitting "bonzai
jammers".

Should be "Banzai jammers" - I suspect that the missiles will ignore
small potted trees <g> (I've eaten ginger jam though, so it might be
possible to get bonzai jam as well ;-) 

On a more serious note:

If he has thrust 2 or less, he can't dodge SMs at all. Unless he pulls
an Alan and mounts the BJs on the base of his capital ship, you should
be able to hit the exact target you aimed for. I have hit the exact
target I aimed for even when the BJs *were* mounted on the big ship's
base, but I probably have more practice.. and as we all know,
practicing beforehand ruins the fun <g>

(<chorus> The English, the English, the English are... </chorus> 
Dang, I was born in the wrong country ;-) )

> Maybe I should try multiple shot missile barrages.

SMs should *always* be fired in multiple shot barrages. *Always*. It
takes two salvoes on the same turn to overwhelm the point defences of a
standard FB1 DD, and capitals are a *lot* tougher than DDs.

> But his newest designs have many PDS and all big ships have ADFC.  
> Takes a lot to get through.

You can hit him with lots, too.

> Someone else commented about More Thrust missiles.  He actually tried
> it once and I outmaneuvered them.  Conclusion: not very good.  But, 
> against his slow ships?

He can't outmaneuver them unless he starts at very high speeds and you
overshoot on the first turn the missiles are flying. They get to choose
their target from all enemy ships within 6mu, so won't hit his BJs
unless you want them to.

> They are still only hit on a 6 from a PDS using FB?

No, PDS hits MT missiles at 4-6 (but each counts as one salvo/squadron,
so you never kill more than  1 MT missile per PDS).

>  What about class-1 beams?

Kills 1 MT missile on rolls of 5 or 6, with no re-rolls.

Regards,

Oerjan Ohlson
oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
- Hen3ry