Supplement Survey Results [Long]

Here are the results of the great supplement survey. I received a
greater
response than I expected. There were 55 responses (including my own,
which I
recorded before I sent out the survey). As well as the results, I've
included some objective analysis. After the results I'll include some
comments supplied by the respondents.

Jon, let me know if you want the actual surveys. The one thing the
surveys
have over this analysis is that you can see actual correlation between
the
results of one question and another. Normally I'd do this kind of full
analysis myself but--frankly--I don't have the time. I'll e-mail the
surveys
if you want them, otherwise I'll dump them.

DEMOGRAPHICS

As mentioned, there were 55 responses. Depending on the number of people
on
the list, this represents between 10% and 20% of the list. I would
assume
that the list is made up mostly of Full Thrust players, with a large
proportion of them also owners (if not players) of Dirtside II and
Stargrunt
2. The survey seems to bear this out. It also bears out that the
majority of
list members are primarily SF gamers. Though some of us also enjoy
fantasy
games, a good deal do not. This will have an effect on the results as
they
apply to the Blood and Thunder game.

RESPONSES

The following are the questions that I asked, followed by the number of
responses and the percentage of the total.

QUESTION #1: Please rank the following in terms of the order you would
like
to see their appearance. For instance, if you want to see Full Thrust,
3rd
Edition first, Bugs Don't Surf second, and Blood and Thunder third, you
would say, "#1 Full Thrust, #2 Bugs Don't Surf, #3 Blood and Thunder".

The supplements are:

Full Thrust, 3rd Edition (FT3) - New version of FT. Includes new ship
design
system, new weapons, optional vector movement rules, scenarios, campaign
rules, and "maybe even a counter sheet for little stuff like vector
markers,
missiles, debris etc..."

Bugs Don't Surf (BDS) - Supplement for Dirtside II and Stargrunt 2.
Includes
alien rules for SG2 and DS2, and scenarios. Perhaps it might include a
campaign system, predesigned vehicles, and a little bit more background
stuff.

Blood and Thunder (BaT) - A generic fantasy game using the FMA system.
The
system will allow battles from skirmishes up to army clashes.

RESPONSES
Full Thrust as first choice: 27 (50%)
Full Thrust as second choice: 24 (44%)
Full Thrust as third choice: 3 (6%)
				
Bugs Don't Surf as first choice: 27 (50%)
Bugs Don't Surf as second choice: 22 (41%)
Bugs Don't Surf as third choice: 5 (9%)
				
Blood and Thunder as first choice: 0 (0%)
Blood and Thunder as second choice: 6 (11%)
Blood and Thunder as third choice: 48 (89%)

I found the numbers a little surprising. The Bugs Don't Surf totals are
essentially identical to that for Full Thrust 3. I expected the
difference
to be greater as this is primarily a Full Thrust list (although one
person
mentioned that he thought there was too much SG2 and DS2 stuff on the
list,
I've heard from SG2 and DS2 players who dropped the list due to too
little
support for their games). Not too suprising, Blood and Thunder is the
number
3 choice.

QUESTION #2: How badly do you want these supplements (please respond
with
"want it immediately", "want it within 6 months", "want it within a
year",
"want it this century", "want it whenever Jon gets it done", "don't want
it")? Note that this is in no way a measure of Jon's ability or
willingness
to produce these supplements. It is only a measure of when you would
like to
see the supplement. It is perfectly okay to answer "want it immediately"
to
all three, even though this is patently impossible for Jon to
accomplish.
				
RESPONSES:				
Full Thrust III 		
  "yesterday": 2 (4%)
  "immediately": 12 (22%)
  "within 6 months": 10 (19%)
  "within a year": 12 (22%)
  "this century": 5 (9%)
  "whenever Jon gets it done": 11 (20%)
  "don't want it": 1 (2%)
  "no answer": 1 (2%)

Bugs Don't Surf 		
  "yesterday": 2 (4%)
  "immediately": 15 (28%)
  "within 6 months": 14 (26%)
  "soon after FT3": 1 (2%)
  "within a year": 10 (19%)
  "this century": 2 (4%)
  "whenever Jon gets it done": 5 (9%)
  "don't want it": 4 (7%)
  "no answer": 1 (2%)

Blood and Thunder			
  "immediately": 2 (4%)
  "within 6 months": 2 (4%)
  "within a year": 6 (11%)
  "this century": 7 (13%)
  "whenever Jon gets it done": 16 (30%)
  "don't want it": 20 (37%)
  "no answer": 1 (2%)

The idea behind this question was to find out how badly people wanted a
particular supplement. It was NOT designed to try and influence Jon's
publishing decisions, it was just to gauge how desperately people wanted
a
particular supplement. You might say you want one supplement over
another,
but this question will tell if you are fanatic about it or somewhat
ambivalent. Some of the respondents didn't quite take it that way and
tended
to answer more "logically" than "emotionally" (emotion is what I was
after).
The other problem with the question was that some of the respondents
didn't
realize when the century ended. :-)  

The response indicates that there is more of an immediate demand for BDS
than the other two. 60% of respondents want it within the next 6 months
versus 45% for FT3 (if you extend the answers to the 1 year mark, the
totals
are 79% and 67% respectively). This would follow with the feeling I've
heard
from DS2 players that they have waited a long time for a DS2 supplement.
Meanwhile, SG2 players have been saying that a lack of a point system
and/or
alien rules is what's preventing them from roping in friends who play
WH40K. 

There is far more ambivalence towards BaT. Only 30% want it within a
year,
with 37% not wanting it at all. The initial cold reception FT3 got on
the
list appears to have dissolved. This is probably in response to Jon's
long
posting that gave us a glimpse as to what FT3 will include.

QUESTION #3: Regardless of what you said for question #1, are you likely
to
buy any of these supplements, assuming that they are priced reasonably
(please answer "yes, sight unseen", "very likely", "somewhat likely",
"somewhat unlikely", "very unlikely", "no, I won't be buying it")?

RESPONSES
Full Thrust 3			
  "yes, sight unseen": 37 (69%)
  "very likely": 8 (15%)
  "somewhat likely": 4 (7%)
  "somewhat unlikely": 2 (4%)
  "very unlikely": 0 (0%)
  "no, I won't be buying it": 3 (6%)

Bugs Don't Surf 		
  "yes, sight unseen": 36 (67%)
  "very likely": 8 (15%)
  "somewhat likely": 5 (9%)
  "somewhat unlikely": 2 (4%)
  "very unlikely": 1 (2%)
  "no, I won't be buying it": 2 (4%)

Blood and Thunder			
  "yes, sight unseen": 5 (9%)
  "very likely": 9 (17%)
  "somewhat likely": 18 (33%)
  "somewhat unlikely": 2 (4%)
  "very unlikely": 4 (7%)
  "no, I won't be buying it": 15 (28%)
  "don't know": 1 (2%)

The liklihood of purchasing BDS and FT3 is essentially identical. The
inconsistances between the responses to this question and question 2 are
interesting. For instance, more people said they didn't want BaT in
question
2 than said that they wouldn't buy it in question 3.

QUESTION #4: Do you currently own one of the following games (please
answer
"yes, I own it", "no, but I'm buying it within 6 months", "no, but I'd
like
to try it some time", "no, but I've been looking for it and can't find
it",
"no, the subject doesn't interest me", "no, I tried it and didn't like
it",
"other"--with a short explanation)?

RESPONSES
Full Thrust			
  "yes, I own it": 49 (91%)
  "I'm buying it in 6 months": 0 (0%)
  "I'd like to try it sometime": 1 (2%)
  "can't find it": 0 (0%)
  "subject doesn't interest me": 1 (2%)
  "tried it and didn't like it": 1 (2%)
  "never tried it": 2 (4%)
  "no answer, don't have?": 0 (0%)

Dirtside II			
  "yes, I own it": 43 (80%)
  "I'm buying it in 6 months": 2 (4%)
  "I'd like to try it sometime": 5 (9%)
  "can't find it": 0 (0%)
  "subject doesn't interest me": 1 (2%)
  "tried it and didn't like it": 0 (0%)
  "no answer, don't have?": 2 (4%)
  "haven't tried it; don't know if I'll like it": 1 (2%)

Stargrunt 2			
  "yes, I own it": 37 (69%)
  "I'm buying it in 6 months": 3 (6%)
  "I'd like to try it sometime": 10 (19%)
  "can't find it": 0 (0%)
  "subject doesn't interest me": 1 (2%)
  "tried it and didn't like it": 0 (0%)
  "don't have it": 0 (0%)
  "no answer, don't have?": 2 (4%)
  "haven't tried it; don't know if I'll like it": 1 (2%)

Just a straightforward demographics question.

QUESTION #5a: Regardless of your answer to question #4, do you currently
play any of the following games (please answer "frequently", "often",
"infrequently", "once", "never")?

RESPONSES
Full Thrust
  "frequently": 15 (28%)
  "often": 12 (22%)
  "infrequently": 16 (30%)
  "once": 1 (2%)
  "never": 6 (11%)
  "not often enough": 1 (2%)
  "no answer": 3 (6%)
				
Dirtside II
  "frequently": 2 (4%)
  "often": 8 (15%)
  "infrequently": 21 (39%)
  "once": 1 (2%)
  "never": 18 (33%)
  "not often enough": 1 (2%)
  "no answer": 3 (6%)

Stargrunt 2
  "frequently": 8 (15%)
  "often": 3 (6%)
  "infrequently": 11 (20%)
  "once": 3 (6%)
  "never": 26 (48%)
  "not often enough": 1 (2%)
  "no answer": 2 (4%)

The frequency of play question was asked to see if there was a
correlation
between people playing the games and the request for a specific
supplement.
Funny enough, there appears to be a reverse correlation where DS2 and
SG2
players want Bugs Don't Surf a bit more strongly than FT players want
FT3.
Meanwhile, DS2 and SG2 is played less often. This might suggest that
they
hope BDS will include rules to help introduce more players to the game
or
make the game easier to play. Or I might be reading too much into
this...

QUESTION #5b: If you answered "infrequently", "once", or "never" to #5a,
why
don't you play more often (please answer "didn't like it", "can't find
players", "can't afford the rules and/or miniatures", "can't find the
rules
for sale", "can't find suitable miniatures for sale", "doesn't interest
me",
"other"--for other, please specify)?

RESPONSES
Full Thrust			
  "can't find players": 13
  "can't afford it": 1
  "can't find rules":	1
  "can't find minis": 1
  "doesn't interest me": 2
  "not enough time": 8
  "other players were dorks/rules rapists": 1
  "minis aren't painted yet": 1
  "playing area needs work due to flooding": 1

Dirtside II
  "didn't like it": 2
  "can't find players": 19
  "can't afford it": 1
  "don't have it": 1
  "doesn't interest me": 1
  "I don't have my minis with me": 1
  "not enough time": 12
  "haven't got around to it yet": 1
  "bought it just to see FMA system": 1
  "minis aren't painted yet": 1
  "playing area needs work due to flooding": 1
  "haven't found anyone to run an intro game yet": 1

Stargrunt 2
  "didn't like it": 1
  "can't find players": 18
  "can't afford it": 3
  "can't find minis": 1
  "doesn't interest me": 2
  "not enough time": 11
  "don't have it": 2
  "playing other--GW--games right now": 1
  "want to try it first": 1
  "haven't found anyone to run an intro game yet": 1

Not everyone answered this question, so I only list the number of
responses
and not a percentage. What's obvious is that if Jon can find a way to
bring
in tons of players and give everyone unlimited time in their lives to
play
his games, he'll make millions (that will give him plenty of time to
work on
that world peace thing). Though sometimes entertaining, there was
nothing
new in this response.

CONCLUSION

So, there you have the supplement survey responses. The one question
missing
from the survey is whether people intend to buy the fleet book and
whether
the purchase of the fleet book would affect purchasing FT3. This was
implied
in the survey, and probably explains the lower immediacy among list
members
towards purchasing FT3. However, I also received a couple of responses
that
suggest that this wasn't made obvious to everyone. Some people wrote in
the
fleet book as a supplement they wanted, apparently without realizing
that
the survey assumed the fleet book was a _fait accompli_.

If there's one overall conclusion from this survey, it is that no matter
which supplement follows the fleet book Jon would be hard pressed to
make a
bad choice. There is a lot of demand for both FT3 and BDS. I would
assume
that FT has sold much greater than DS2 and/or SG2. That would suggest
that
FT3 will sell better than BDS. There's also the problem Jon mentioned
about
FT needing a re-release. The survey suggests that releasing FT3 would be
prudent. On the other hand, it looks as though BDS is more greatly
anticipated. This means that it might hit the break even point sooner
than
FT3. Either way, Jon's fans appear to be loyal with a good number of
them
buying anything he produces sight unseen. 

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses. Hopefully this will
prove
useful not only for further discussions on the list but for Jon in the
marketing of his games. 

QUOTES

Here are some choice quotations from the surveys to finish this post.
I've
left the name of the respondent off the quote to maintain anonymity.

"By now, you've probably noticed a pattern here: I like _starship_
games,
and am not terribly keen on classic ground wargames, even SF ones (at
least,
not miniatures; I have a few boardgames of that type, but I don't fancy
the
time and effort required to get into land miniatures). I do _not_ like
fantasy, and would prefer that Jon stayed right away from it, but I
realise
that this is unlikely for good commercial reasons -- I just hope that
his
other stuff, especially FT, will not get buried under waves of fantasy
fanatics. I find the mailing list rather too much concerned with SG2 and
DS2
for my taste, but the thought of a deluge of fantasy stuff there makes
me
shudder; I would have to unsubscribe if that happens, which I don't want
to do."

"Blood and Thunder is unranked (dont waste time on fantasy there are
already
plenty out there)"

" Dirtside II  "other"	I usually play Epic 40K now, but this is rare,
too.
This is more "can't find players".  The basic rules for E40K are simpler
than DSII (in my opinion), and seem faster playing so I could use larger
armies.  Simpler rules are important because my wife is my usual
not-too-enthusiastic opponent."

"  As far as liking FT is concerned, I did enjoy playing it but found it
overly simple compared to SFB.	Of course I find SFB to be overly
complex
(or at least overly slow) so something in between would be nice. 
Perhaps
Interceptor is worth a second look.  The reason I mention that is that
I'm
not sure I'll be too interested in FT3, because the core of the system
will
remain the same.  As has been mentioned recently in the ECM "dice"
thread,
there are problems that stem from the fact that the original system uses
six-sided dice, which means all your values tend to have to fit in a 1-6
range.	This makes subtlety difficult.	On the other hand maybe I should
dig
up a copy of the Champions rules and see how they handled that problem."

" #1 Full Thrust -- because Jon has been working hard on it for quite a
while now, and I'd hate to see all that effort pushed aside for future
consideration while he works on something else.

"#2 Bugs Don't Surf -- because it's easier to work on a game system that
exists than to design a new one, and the new supplements would be
available
sooner!

"#3 Blood and Thunder -- actually, I want this right now! But given the
restrictions placed on a one-man shop, along with the above reasons for
doing the two supplements earlier, I'm willing to wait for it."

" Full Thrust  No, I tried it and didn't like it [I played it with a
bunch
of dorks, with the right people I'll try it again..]
Dirtside II  No but I'd like to try it.
Stargrunt 2  Yes I own it, and I think it is one of the best minature
based
games I've played!...
Full Thrust  I played a few times, and the guys I played against were
rules
rapists.
Dirtside II  Love to try, but nobody around here has their act together
to
run a demo for me.
Stargrunt 2  minatures are hard to find, but I'm doing my best with mail
order"

"My priority: 
	#1 Fleet book with the rules from the playtest version of FTIII
	#2 Bugs Don't Surf with points system and transition from SG to
DS
	#3 Full Thrust III
	#4 Blood and Thunder"

"I want the best product he can put out, even if it takes a year. -  "Ve
vant no miztakes, Tuffley or ve vill send you to the Kravak frront!" I
WILL
buy FT3 for sure, even if it's been Misarendoed!"

" Stargrunt 2 have a hard time getting figs (we've got a large
collection of
40K figs, but they dont seem. . . right.) lack of interest in
skirmishing..no scenarios or point system"

"Dirtside II-other-do not like the chit drawing system"

"Jon (and his playtesters) will have to think a LOT to produce a good
fantasy game, especially if it is supposed to be able to handle anything
from a skirmish to the battle of Pelennor... Also, there are some good
competitors for it already; the market that can be pryed loose from GW
isn't
that big."

"...my basement needs more work since last year's Midwestern floods..."

Allan Goodall:	agoodall@sympatico.ca 
"You'll want to hear about my new obsession.
 I'm riding high upon a deep depression. 
 I'm only happy when it rains."    - Garbage