[GZG] Eating Crow Now
From: emu2020@c...
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:38:45 +0000
Subject: [GZG] Eating Crow Now
You know, I'm going to eat crow for this, but I feel I am man enough to
say it that I may have overreacted to John's post. I found myself
putting my mind around other subjects and how I would voice facts and
opinions on other boards and settings and found that really his choice
of words for his post might not have been so far off from what I might
have used given another topic.
I do think a good amount of misquoting and misjudging was done
throughout that nasty thread and I apologize to the list for having
contributed to the escalation of the thread.
Ryan and John, I really do appreciate all the data you contributed and a
good bit of my bluster (heck most of it) was from me defending my
perception of impropriety. I cannot say what happened there and I'm
still trying to figure it out myself, but I am sorry to have lashed out
where, even by my own hindsight, it may not have been called for. I may
not have liked how he phrased it, but it was likely something that I
could have brushed aside for the information it contained at any other
moment.
-Eli
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I also found no rudeness, nor offensiveness in John's response. He was
giving some additional insight as to how reality is often far, far away
from
what we like/see in gaming environments. It's very easy for us to
expect
our troops to act in certain expected ways on our gaming tables. How
many
*war games* really deal with corruption and complete ineptitude by
commanders and politicians?
That said, I have been (slowly, oh sooooo slowly) working up forces for
a DS
campaign that I'd like to play with my local group. The base premise is
to
have each player have control of a mercenary company of their choosing.
The
mercenaries are hired on short term contracts in a war being fought
between
two of my political units.
The Order is a right wing religous faction that broke off of the NSL.
You
could compare them to cold war russians (with religious zealousness), GW
Imperial Guard, or (since we brought up the Dorsai) the Friendlies.
They
use almost "modern" equipment, but realy have to rely on numbers to be
effective. I use mostly GZG Future Wars tracked and wheeled vehicles for
these guys.
The New Republic of America (NRA) is a spliter from the NAC who
re-founded
an America. They are higher tech than the Order, but not quite at grav
tank
levels. I use mostly Ral Partha OGRE minis (and yes, they do field OGREs
in
addition to crunchies).
The Order buys mercs to offset their lacking tech base. The NRA buys
mercs
to offset their lack in numbers.
Now, the thing that I hadn't really thought about until this thread
started
was how to model some of the political limitations.
First, we have a huge potential for corruption. Mercs might not get
paid on
time, might get substandard supplies, or might be given missions that
are
more about propaganda or personal motivation on the part of the
contracter
than they are about winning anything.
Second, we have issues of ROE. Most games don't bother with ROE at all.
I'd
love to hear thoughts on how to write such for games. I can think of a
few
things, like "your units may not fire unless fired upon" and "oh, TBW,
you
can't fire at any structure that might house civilians".
So, for gaming purposes, given a political and economic model that
allows
for slammers-like merc companies, what do folks think about ways to
build in
corruption, incompetence (other than letting me play the commander!),
and
restrictive ROEs?
:)
John the Other than Atkinson John
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:00 AM, John Atkinson
<johnmatkinson@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:57 AM, <paul@otd.com> wrote:
> >> Well, it's modern day reality.
> >
> > Cloaking flames and prejudicial beliefs in the name of 'reality'
doesn't
> > cut it, either, really. Flames are flames. Not every peacekeeper is
> > corrupt, and saying that is only going to start long, pointless
> arguments.
>
> Didn't say every peacekeeper was corrupt. Read for comprehension, not
> with your emotions.
>
> Said the ones who weren't corrupt and criminal were still hobbled by
> stupid ROEs. Srebrenica, anyone?
>
> John
> --
> "Thousands of Sarmatians, Thousands of Franks, we've slain them again
> and again. We're looking for thousands of Persians."
> --Vita Aureliani
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gzg-l mailing list
> Gzg-l@vermouth.csua.berkeley.edu
> http://vermouth.csua.berkeley.edu:1337/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gzg-l
>
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I also found no rudeness, nor offensiveness in John's
response. He was giving some additional insight as to how reality
is often far, far away from what we like/see in gaming
environments. It's very easy for us to expect our troops to
act in certain expected ways on our gaming tables. How many *war
games* really deal with corruption and complete ineptitude by commanders
and politicians?<br>
<br>That said, I have been (slowly, oh sooooo slowly) working up forces
for a DS campaign that I'd like to play with my local group. The
base premise is to have each player have control of a mercenary company
of their choosing. The mercenaries are hired on short term contracts in
a war being fought between two of my political units. <br>
<br>The Order is a right wing religous faction that broke off of the
NSL. You could compare them to cold war russians (with religious
zealousness), GW Imperial Guard, or (since we brought up the Dorsai) the
Friendlies. They use almost "modern" equipment, but
realy have to rely on numbers to be effective. I use mostly GZG Future
Wars tracked and wheeled vehicles for these guys.<br>
<br>The New Republic of America (NRA) is a spliter from the NAC who
re-founded an America. They are higher tech than the Order, but not
quite at grav tank levels. I use mostly Ral Partha OGRE minis (and yes,
they do field OGREs in addition to crunchies). <br>
<br>The Order buys mercs to offset their lacking tech base. The
NRA buys mercs to offset their lack in numbers.<br><br>Now, the thing
that I hadn't really thought about until this thread started was how
to model some of the political limitations.<br>
<br>First, we have a huge potential for corruption. Mercs might
not get paid on time, might get substandard supplies, or might be given
missions that are more about propaganda or personal motivation on the
part of the contracter than they are about winning anything.<br>
<br>Second, we have issues of ROE. Most games don't bother
with ROE at all. I'd love to hear thoughts on how to write such for
games. I can think of a few things, like "your units may not
fire unless fired upon" and "oh, TBW, you can't fire at
any structure that might house civilians".<br>
<br>So, for gaming purposes, given a political and economic model that
allows for slammers-like merc companies, what do folks think about ways
to build in corruption, incompetence (other than letting me play the
commander!), and restrictive ROEs?<br>
<br>:)<br><br>John the Other than Atkinson John<br><br><div
class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:00 AM, John Atkinson
<span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:johnmatkinson@gmail.com">johnmatkinson@gmail.com</a>></s
pan> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
class="Ih2E3d">On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 6:57 AM, <<a
href="mailto:paul@otd.com">paul@otd.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Well, it's modern day reality.<br>
><br>
> Cloaking flames and prejudicial beliefs in the name of
'reality' doesn't<br>
> cut it, either, really. Flames are flames. Not every peacekeeper
is<br>
> corrupt, and saying that is only going to start long, pointless
arguments.<br>
<br>
</div>Didn't say every peacekeeper was corrupt. Read for
comprehension, not<br>
with your emotions.<br>
<br>
Said the ones who weren't corrupt and criminal were still hobbled
by<br>
stupid ROEs. Srebrenica, anyone?<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
John<br>
</font><div class="Ih2E3d">--<br>
"Thousands of Sarmatians, Thousands of Franks, we've slain them
again<br>
and again. We're looking for thousands of Persians."<br>
--Vita Aureliani<br>
<br>
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