Prev: Re: [GZG] Armoured utility vehicles and IEDs in SG/DS Next: Re: [GZG] Armoured utility vehicles and IEDs in SG/DS

Re: [GZG] Armoured utility vehicles and IEDs in SG/DS

From: "Tom B" <kaladorn@g...>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:56:41 -0400
Subject: Re: [GZG] Armoured utility vehicles and IEDs in SG/DS

Gzg-l mailing list
gerbeer John said:

Here's what most people in this conversation aren't tracking.  As much
you want to put together scenarios that approach or incorporate elements
real-world situations, they make shitty games.	Sorry.Your average IED
incident lasts moments, and rarely incoporates anything more than a
and possibly a few secondary devices.  If small arms fire is encountered
part of the attack, you're talking a handful of jackasses blazing away
unaimed fire from a building far enough away that it can't be positively
identified.  It's over in less than a minute, because if they stick
they end up very, very dead.
[Tomb] I particularly asked about how to represent their effects in the
game. I made no specification about my intended use. I don't recall
to capture the details of the current situation nor do I suspect that
uses of IEDs, in either the real world or sci-fi, will take on the
of today's uses. Ultimately, an IED can make an effective way of
stopping a
convoy for an ambush. It can make an effective way of stopping or
slowing a
rapid reaction force responding to another situation. There are any
of places where one can and will make sense in the real-world and in

If you've got foreign occupiers on your outrim colony world, maybe you
have fancy weapons and have to resort to some know how an an IED in
up an ambush or fixing action. Ultimately, your forces may not always
the same levels of support US or even NATO forces enjoy. If a UN mission
hit by an IED in the modern day and it is composed of (for instance)
African troops, an ambush or fixing action may be fairly successful as
may have trouble bringing to bear the firepower the US can. Similar
sorts of
situations are perfectly within the realm of the GZGverse.

So, don't go assuming what I have in mind. I just want to capture a
reasonable set of game numbers for how likely these things are to score
hit and how likely that is to score damage versus various sorts of
Beyond that, I leave to the people setting up games to decide where and
they are appropriate to use.


John further said:

The object of [current day ME -- TomB] insurgents is not and cannot be
achieve a tactical success as you all might be thinking from watching
Dawn one too many times [Not possible. Wolverines! -- TomB].  The
ME -- TomB] objective is destabilize a country enough to prevent
civil governance, and to get on the evening news enough
times that they can sell their narrative to the ignorant jackasses who
comprise the majority of West's voting populace.

We've seen insurgents use IEDs in other places in the world (Vietnam,
Chechnya, etc) and I'm fairly certain that they had (at times) planned
tactical victories in the actions involving IEDs. There are a number of
scenarios, dependent on the resources and training of both sides, in
an IED could simply be a precursor to other forms of combat.

The fact that this (IED attacks followed by small arms engagement proves
disasterous to those involved if the attack is against the US or a major
Western power in Iraq/Afghanistan today may or may not impede it as a
game. If you define a game as 'column must get off far side of board,
insurgents must slow down using IEDs, RPGs, small arms, etc', then you
have a fun enough game. If the column forces aren't terribly top notch,
may actually have a real knock-down, drag-out fight. If you are playing
campaign of some sort, slowing down an enemy column may be worth some
insurgents sacrificed if you get to carry out another attack without

So, even though I haven't decided exactly what I want to use the
for, I can see plenty of cases where there are valid in-game

And thank you for the information, the parts you could provide.


"Now, I go to spread happiness to the rest of the station. It is a
responsibility but I have learned to live with it."
Londo, A Voice in the Wilderness, Part I

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like
administering medicine to the dead." -- Thomas Paine

Thomas Paine

Prev: Re: [GZG] Armoured utility vehicles and IEDs in SG/DS Next: Re: [GZG] Armoured utility vehicles and IEDs in SG/DS