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Re: [GZG] [Real World] Russian Mig 29 shoots down Georgian UAV

From: Phillip Atcliffe <atcliffe@n...>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:26:10 +0100
Subject: Re: [GZG] [Real World] Russian Mig 29 shoots down Georgian UAV

Gzg-l mailing list
???? ????????? wrote:
> I think, I can answer about those two questins
> 1/ Nationality of the fighter. You can definitely notice two vertical
stabilisers. So, there are only very several types of planes of that
kind there: American F-15 or F-14, as far as I know no one posess that
planes in that region; Russian (or ex-Soviet) MiG-25, MiG-29, MiG-31,
Su-27, Su-30, Su-34, Su-35. Su-30-35 are VERY rare planes, and MiG-31
exists in a very small numbers, so that is definitely not one of them.
MiG-29 or Su-27 can be seen there, and there are surely no those planes
in the airforce of Georgia or Abhasia, you can see only Russian "29th"
or "27th" there. As to MiG-25 -- it's relatively old interceptor, which
was also almost as expensive as F-15, so it wasn't wide-spred in Soviet
AA-force, but there were squadrons of them, based in Caucasus, and some
of them could be in Gerorgia. That's another questions, that Georgians
in 1990s didn't have any good fighter engineers and repairing
facilities, so they can hardly make any of MiG-25 fly. So, for me, it
was no doubt, Russian plane.
I think we can be fairly sure that it wasn't a MiG-25 or -31 due to the 
high-mounted cockpit. Since, as you say, the Su-30+ variants of the 
/Flanker/ are rare (and the -34 is predominantly an attack aircraft 
rather than an interceptor), that leaves the MiG-29 and Su-27. Those two

aircraft look very similar from the front and, at the range we see the 
attacking aircraft, the only real way to tell the difference is by 
estimating the size of the aircraft, the /Flanker/ being somewhat larger

than the /Fulcrum/ -- but, of course, that's not possible because we 
don't know how far away it is. If we could get a good look at the 
underside, we might be able to determine which aircraft it is from 
certain subtle differences, and if we could see the rear end properly, 
we'd know from the presence or absence of the /Flanker/'s characteristic

tail "sting" which type it was, but the BBC clip is too small and taken 
from the wrong angle for me to tell. The accompanying story says it was 
a MiG-29, so I presume that someone, somewhere, either knows what the 
V-VS has stationed in that area or could get a better look at the 
attacker. I'm not arguing.

> 2/ Whose airspace was it.
> The answer is: Abhasian. Georgians claim Abhasia as there (Georgian)
territory. Abhasians don't think so, they want independance, and they
almost have it: there are no Georgian army, Georgian police, or Georgian
law on there territory. Now Georgians are trying to take the land back
by armed hand, Abhasians are preparing for defencive war, but Russians
don't want to have any wars next to there border, so, they do what they
can to stop Georgian military preparations by any means (let's say
shooting down Georgian recon-planes over Abhasia). What is also
important -- many Abhasians in Abhasia are citizens of Russia, and need
protection in case of Georgian invasion; Abhasia is very friendly
towards Russia, while Georgia is hostile; after Kosovo get its
independance from Serbia (in complenely the same circumstances) Russian
government consider more or less possible for them to recognise
independent Abhasia and Southern Osetia (by the way if there were a
referenda in S Osetia, they would choose to reunite with Northern
Osetia, which is a part of Russia, rather than being an independant
"banana republic").
So Russia is acting in its usual role of "protector of the Slavs"? 
Shades of a century ago... /plus ca change, plus ca meme chose..../


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