Re: [VV] Vectorverse FTL

> 
> At 3:53 PM -0500 1/31/05, Grant A. Ladue wrote:
> >  >
> >>  >No fixed set of defenses is going to be sufficient against an
opponent
> >>  that can just continue to attack with impunity.
> >>
> >>	There is no impunity--at a minimum, he's still laying out the
cash for
> >>  munitions and the logistics line to get it there, and he doesn't
have an
> >>  unlimited budget.
> >
> >	Sure, but invariably the cost of a defensive position ends up
being
> >   significantly higher than the cost of the weapons that attack it.
> 
> You bring X ship with Y weapons and Z hull/engines/FTL. I buy Xx10 
> Rock with tunnels and corridors dug through it, with Yx3 weapons 
> because I've not had to pay for Z Hull/engines/ftl and my orbital 
> platform will paste your ship in a given time because I can pump out 
> more fire per unit time with far more hull points because I didn't 
> have to pay for engines or ftl.
> 
   See, this is my point.  Unless there is something that prevents it, I

 *never* send ships through.  Hell, I don't even leave ships near the
other 
 end of the wormhole.  I just ballistically launch massive missile
strikes 
 through the gate from long distances away.  I don't pay for
hulls/engines/
 crews that are put at risk *at all*.  Just far cheaper missiles.

> 
> Again, lets go back to Gibraltar. You say you can fire shipboard 
> weapons against me. I however can launch longer legged aircraft with 
> more sensor fits onboard from a land based position and find you and 
> hit you long before you can launch your ship based weapons.
> 
> If we're nuke free, I figure out where you are roughly and paste your 
> taskforce with a few nukes in the area.
>
    Ho ho.  Once we're nuke free, you're toast.  You have no chance of
nuking
  all the possible launch point in the Atlantic from which you'll be
attacked.
  This is directly analogous to the wormhole situation.  The other guy
can 
  launch his nuke strike from *anywhere* on the other side of the
wormhole and
  you don't see it till it comes through.  If you have sensors/ships on
the
  other side to observe the strike, then I strike those pieces first and
we're
  back to the first step.  If you don't see the nukes until they're
almost on
  top of you, then you don't really have a chance to stop them.  Worst
case for
  the attacker is that they set off some of the nukes further away from
your
  defenses (Gibraltar) to kill your sensors, and "walk" them in on you. 
Quite
  frankly, you don't have a chance unless you have a large fleet out
there 
  contesting the Atlantic, and if you have a large fleet out there, then
you 
  don't *need* large defenses at Gibraltar.  Then the scenario is the
fleet to
  fleet battles in the ocean, and that was what I was saying.

> 
> This works only if the defender is sitting on their hands asleep. Its 
> just like door entry into a house by police. If they're ready on the 
> drop, the defender will plug the first cops through the door. Usually 
> cops expect the first guy to go down. When cops play this out in 
> training with cops on the defense expecting the Breach, the first cop 
> or more through the door ALWAYS die. That usually screws-up the rest 
> of the entry because they're triping/stepping on their dead buddies 
> that are right at the doorway.

    Which is why the military lobs hand grenades through the door first.
 Your
  scenarios are all applicable if one side is forced to send bodies
through the
  door instead, but that isn't *necessarily* the case.	There are ways
to 
  constrain the situation such that fixed defenses are essentially
impregnable,
  but for a lot of the wormhole/gate situations stipulated in SF, those 
  contraints aren't there.  For others there are.

  grant