Re: (DS): Systems per Class

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 18:48:59 +0200 Oerjan Ohlson
<oerjan.ohlson@telia.com> writes:
<snip>
>>And that's a valid view but it's not DS 3
>
>Yes, it *is* DS3. It won't be DS*2*, of course - but it will be 
>*DirtSide*, 
>just like Full Thrust with all the Fleet Book modifications is still 
>*Full 
>Thrust* even though it is no longer FT*2*.
>

Thought you'd say something like  that.
<snip>
>
>>Why should we expect to know what future war will be like in 2100?
>
>We don't - but we can be fairly certain that war in 2100 *won't* be 
>like 
>war in 'Nam 1979 or the Fulda Gap 1985 (in a historic-fictional 
>non-nuclear 
>WW3 that fortunately never happened).
>

I think that's a key point. 

>>...the better question might be "What do you (plural) think a SF war 
>game 
>>should be like?"
>
<snip> DS2's lowest tech 
>tier 
>is after all supposed to represent stuff not very far *in advance* of 
>what 
>we have today.
>

Should it be that low?	I guess it gives a referent to the game that we
can understand as a base.

>Then add further capabilities to that. Mere weapons power and armour 
>ratings aren't very interesting (advances in the one area will most 
>likely 
>be countered by advanced in the other before very long anyway); 

Hold that thought.

more 
>important is the sensor/counter-sensor game allowing the players to 
>detect 
>(or execute) hidden movements, disrupt each others' communications and 
>so 
>on. 

And the cycle of change counter-change would apply here too.  I don't
want to play a game of "EWO" but a combined arms game.	This would have
to not takeover the game itself or you really DO need a name change.

> Effective area-defence systems similar to the Slammers' "Calliope" 
>
>(though maybe not quite as long-ranged), able to destroy bombs, 
>missiles 
>and artillery shells in the air before they can do any damage 
>(prototypes 
>of such systems were successfully tested last year, but so far they're 
>far 
>from being small and robust enough to be mobile) - imagine what such a 
>
>system in the wrong army could do to today's US military doctrine! 

Today's military wouldn't exist in the game if we use the base level
suggested.

Every grunt's dream - to be rid of the Air Force.  You deny the air to
SSMs then you take out the 3rd dimension of the combat.  And Grav
vehicles become NOE tanks at best.

>Grav 
>vehicles - yes, they're very "high SF", but they're also a stock 
>feature in 
>many SF backgrounds... so let us make them behave like they do in 
>those SF 
>books, instead of like some amphibious WW2 vehicles...
>

Okay, which books?  Deployable from tree top to edge of space?	The you
have a Air Force game in many ways.  Currently Air Forces are blatantly
under-powered in Ds 2.	And they would die to the "Calliope" system
anyway.

>Create a dual unit design system which separates the points cost 
>(which 
>measures the unit's combat value in terms of the rules, and which does 
>not 
>depend on what background you play in) from the design rules 
>determining 
>what vehicles are physically possible to create in your chosen 
>background 
>(which *will* vary from background to background, and which can easily 
>vary 
>even between different powers within a single background). This would 
>be a 
>very powerful tool for allowing players to customize the game to match 
>
>their view of what future combat should be like.
>

Well, I hope people of your caliber keep them from becoming the SFB
style
rules of creating vehicles.  That's a pretty steep curve to keep simple
(not as simple as currently I know but not a binder by itself please!)

>With luck, we might even be able to push DS3 into covering warfare in 
>the 
>2020s... *before* we've already seen what warfare in the 2020s is 
>actually 
>like :-/
>

Lots of luck.

<snip>
>Bingo. Ideally the game should *allow* 'Nam-era battles for those who 
>are 
>comfortable with viewing the future like a slightly re-named 'Nam... 
>but it 
>shouldn't be *restricted* to 'Nam-era battles like it is now :-/
>

Restricted, no, there we agree.  But could one game cover that range of
scenarios as the Vietnam redux tech to Imperials versus Zhodani and
still
be an affordable set of rules without going the GW [Spit] Codex thing?

Gracias,
Glenn

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