Re: Spoon Feeding WWII Genre to players was

>
>
>>So given the fact that all wargamers are lazy, and that DS2 doesn't
say it
>>can be used for historical games on the cover, who IS going to
convince
>>them that it can be used for WW2/Modern games?
>>
>
>Folks like you and me who play both sides of the fence (uh,
sci-fi/fantasy
>_and_ historicals, I mean! *grin*). The best thing to do is to have
your mods
>on a piece of paper and hand them out during the game to anyone
interested.
>Then those who liked it will maybe by the sci-fi rules to play the
game. 
>

I have been reading this discussion about converting DS2 or SG to play 
WWII rules
for some time and just sort of wondered why. They are "excellent" rules 
for SciFi but
must be modified to play WWII. Are you having a problem with the WWII
rules
that you have been playing with that require you to go and modify a set 
of rules?

At Historicon 2002 I played a set of rules called WWII Battlefront and 
they were excellent
rules for that period at a scale (for infantry) somewhere between DS2 
and SG. I
play at larger scale for infantry but if  I did go to this scale I would

chose Battlefront
over DS2 or SG. The reason is that the rules written for a certain time 
frame (if written
well) give the feel of that time and must only be slightly modified to
meet
 "my opinion" of combat in that time frame. I also get all of the major 
armies vehical
data (in #$%&*! modules) so that I do not reinvent the wheel if I go to 
these rules.

At Historicon 2001 I played in another WWII tactical game and  found the

rules
were "good". The rules had been rewritten for WWII and were coming out
for
modern and "future". The problem will be that in order to play these 
rules for WWII
and then change over to invasion of World X will require a complete 
change in mindset
(use rules A-B-C-D for WWII and substitute rules X for A and Y for C) 
which in the
long run just isn't worth it. For SciFi at that scale I would select SG.

>
>>(Incidentally, I am planning
>>to play some Vietnam games using DS2. Its all helicopters and infantry
so
>>DS2 should work like a dream with virtually no modifications.)
>>
The best Vietnam games I have ever played in wasn't all helicopters and 
infantry. It was calling
down artillery and it not arriving until after the position had been 
taken and occupied. It was
being a VC and trying to get across a river while a special forces team 
was playing tag in front
and an armored cav unit was coming up the rear (and they weren't talking

to each other). It
was also having two helocopters and trying to kill one sniper who had an

RPG and was shooting
at a Riverine patrol (I never did hit the $%&*#+ sniper). Anyone can 
figure out the stats it's
the feel of the game that is important.

>>
>
>Post your mods on the web or on here, pretty please?
>
>>You won't need the encyclopedic stats database that Flak Magnet was
talking
>>about creating first, just enough stats so you can play the game at
the
>>shows.
>>
>
>The only problem with not doing the stats is that often it takes
experience
>with a game system to know how to change it to get "historical"
results. I
>couldn't have written _Hardtack_ without playing SG2 for a while first.
>Someone who has played DS2 once at a convention might find coming up
with
>North African desert stats for DS2 in WW2 a bit overwhelming. 
>
>
>Allan Goodall			agoodall@hyperbear.com
>http://www.hyperbear.com
>