Re: [SG] Platoon make up, exoskeleton PA and drones

Hi folks,

responding to several different posts on this subject (as I receive the
list digest version)

--------

John A said:

>Still experimenting.
>
>We're down to 5 now.  Airborne, Air Assault, Light
>Infantry, Infantry, Ranger, and Mechanized.
>

er, that's six actually ;)

yeah, ok, that's being pedantic :)

---------

Beth - as John said, you have a huge platoon.  It often helps when
putting
together a platoon TO&E (for Stargrunt) to have an idea of how that
platoon
fits into a Company and Battalion.  For example, most countries (that
I'm
aware of) that have "Assault Pioneers" usually include them as a
*battalion* asset, as a single platoon, attached to the "support
company"
of the battalion.  They would then be sent out as a platoon or by squads
as
needed.  So, having a squad of them in EVERY infantry platoon is a huge
investment of your total force in Pioneers.  Same with mortars.  In a
Canadian battalion, for example, you have a mortar platoon in the combat
support company, with eight 81mm mortars.  I can't remember if we add
mortars in the rifle companies (but I don't think so).	 It is
relatively
unusual to find a mortar in every rifle platoon, though I think the
British
army might have done this, and certain US formations.  For the platoon
commander, having a mortar available is useful under some circumstances,
but in many cases, they're more effective if you can mass their fire
against a single target, and it would be difficult (from a
command-and-control) point of view in a lower tech (and not highly
computerized, all zoomie with high tech communications, etc) force, to
mass
your mortar fire if they are all assigned to different rifle platoons. 
In
that case, the mortar will be able to support "its" platoon, but that's
about it, unless everyone was in defensive positions (ie not
maneuvering)
with a coordinated fire plan, etc.  

Because you're saying you have a mortar squad and a pioneer squad in
every
platoon, that's 16 troopers per platoon who aren't assigned as riflemen.
You have to have a minimum number of plain old riflemen (including the
comms people, saw gunners, etc) in each platoon to do the fighting part
while the mortar people are lugging the mortars, the pioneers are
lugging
mines, etc.  This means you have a platoon that is roughly 50% larger
than
usual.	This also means that the higher level formations (company and
battalion) will be larger than usual also.  Current Canadian/Aussie/UK
battalions might be approx. 750 - 900 troops.  Yours would be maybe 1200
-
1400 if you keep the battalion assets.	That's a BIG formation, and
would
consequently place a bigger requirement on your economy for resources,
etc
(if you translate that type of formation across your army).  Your
formation
isn't big enough or different enough that you can say "my battalions are
going to do what everyone else's Brigades do, so it doesn't matter if
they're bigger."  And since that's the case, your battalions will still
be
doing the same sorts of missions everyone else assigns to their
battalions.
 You'll just have a much larger investment in infrastructure
requirements,
etc., to achieve roughly the same result.  In certain circumstances,
your
battalions will get the job done faster, but not *all* cercumstances,
for
certain.

It is pretty reasonable to say that you've assigned a couple or three
mortars at the COMPANY level, to your "weapons platoon" (that might also
have anti-tank weapons and heavy machineguns, for example).  These would
be
light mortars unless you're a heavily mechanized force who can afford
specific mortar transports for a larger weapon.

So, it helps when you're putting together a platoon to have an idea
where
all the other bits fit in, or you might end up with the "try to fit a
bit
of everything in" sort of organization.  If you extrapolate your platoon
out to a company or battalion size formation, you'd have something like
this:

Rifle platoon = 1 squad pioneers, 2 mortars (according to Beth) 

Rifle Company= 3-4 rifle platoons = 1 platoon of pioneers equivalent, 8
mortars 

Rifle Battalion = 3-4 rifle companies = 1 company of pioneers
equivalent,
32 mortars.

Having a company-equivalent force of pioneers is interesting for a
battalion, but but hardly necessary unless you're the Egyptians
breaching
the Israeli Suez canal defenses, or something.	Even then, they took
along
a bunch of very specialized assault engineer units to do the big work.
Most battalion commanders would probably be happier with just a platoon
of
pioneers, and the extra people as extra riflemen!  Same with mortars -
32
mortars is a LOT of mortars, and given that they'd all be commanded at
the
PLATOON level, you could run into all kinds of problems, like bombing
your
own people...  And the logistics requirements of supplying every
infantry
battalion with ammo for 32 mortars would be insane :)

When you get right down to it, 32 mortars might as well be a mortar
battalion, all on it's own!

I'm not suggesting that you give up your orgainization at all!	But if
you
translate it into a Dirtside formation, for example (ie
company/battalion
size) you will run into this sort of problem.

Now, if you want to create your platoon with all these extra bits
(assigned
assault pioneers and mortars) you could say that the mortars and
pioneers
have been attached to the platoon for a specific mission/assignment from
the company /battalion level, and that way you can be happily painting
the
figures you want to use and at the same time have a force that
reasonably
translates into larger size units for Dirtside crossovers (and makes
more
sense from a Stargrunt point of view, also).

Something else to point out, in Stargrunt, light mortars have a MINIMUM
range of 24" and all other indirect weapons (ie medium and heavy
mortars,
light arty, etc) have a MINIMUM range of 48".  This is from the
"On-Table
Artillery Fire" section on p47.  There are other restrictions on moving
and
firing, etc.  Check them out.  For the purposes of a stargrunt game,
having
a couple of mortars in your platoon will work well in certain
circumstances, depending on scenario, but it might also be a
disadvantage
in some scenarios (ie having a significant portion of your fighting
force
tied up carrying heavy weapons - thereby being encumbered and traveling
slower - and not shooting at the other guys...).  They'd be great in a
defensive game, if you have a large enough table to work around the
range
and movement limitations.

Creating your force as part of a larger formation and telling everyone
else
that you have company and battalion assets to draw on (that would
include
pioneers and mortar teams) might be an decent alternative to bringing
the
mortars along to every game and hoping that they'll work in that
scenario.

But certainly you can have fun painting the figs and having them handy
when
needed :)

Something else you could consider is adding a medic team to each
platoon.
I've done this in several of my Stargrunt forces and find it to be very
useful.  This would be a medic and assistant medic (two figures only)
used
as a separate  "squad".  So rather than having them tied to any one
particular squad, they can run around to whichever squad needs their
attention.  The rules say that you have to take a reorg action to check
your wounded, and that if a medic is "part of the unit" you get a bonus
to
the "they're ok" result.  Because I use "independent" medics, I modify
this
a bit, as follows:

Your medic unit (the 2 troopers) have to move to within unit coherency
of
the unit with injured troopers, or that unit has to move within unit
coherency of the medics.  The actual reorg action has to be spent by the
unit with the wounded, but if a medic team is within coherency, their
bonus
gets added.  In effect, they join the unit very briefly, just for the
purposes of that check.  Then, they can both go their separate ways. 
The
medic team CAN'T take the reorganize action on behalf of the larger
unit.

I have my medic team "administratively" attached to the platoon HQ
squad,
but during the game, they act as a separate unit with their own chits,
etc.

Also, it is really funny to watch as my "harmless" medic team adds into
the
fighting on occasion when I'm in a desperate situation...  Ok, they're
only
rolling feeble dice, but due to the vagaries of dice rolling, I've seen
them take out PA troopers, effectively suppress other squads, etc. 
Mostly,
though, my medics just hide :)

>
>I like the look so though what the heck they're all going to be
laughing
>anyway ;)

Which is as good a reason as any, but if you use the "they're attached
from
the battalion organization, which I happen to have right here" argument,
then you'll look like you know exactly what you're talking about, and
you
can cut the laughing off at the knees :)

It's nice to have a good justification for doing what you were going to
do
anyway!

>I get your idea, but I guess my thoughts on PA are much more at the
low-tech
>end vs yours. Really just an exoskeleton to give you a bit more
strength and
>protection not necessarily speed.

would it not add unnecessary complexity to have squads composed of
figures
with different types of armour?  be a bit of a pain during fire
resolution,
no?

I suppose you could determine who gets hit before making the IMPACT vs.
ARMOUR rolls, so maybe not a problem.

 I was also thinking you could create PA
>detachments if necessary (sort of on a platoon scale what Napoleonics
did
>with companies of grenadiers).

Would this happen "in game" or before the game starts?	If "in game" it
would take a LOT of actions to make something like this happen.

Anyway, I hope this gives you something to think about!

Have fun!

Adrian

***************************************

Adrian Johnson
adrian@stargrunt.ca
http://www.stargrunt.ca