Re: [OT] Frog Bashing

From: "John Atkinson" <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>

> > >Of course we know how long the defense of 
> > >France in '39 lasted. What was it a week or two?
> > 
> > Actually, the whole year.
> 
> Most people are counting only from the beginning of
> the German offensive.

OK, 3 months, all there was.
 
> Kind of stretching a point to criticize the US for
> it's arms sales policy when one takes into account the
> French's policy on arms sales since WWII.

Nope. Both are indefensible. two wrongs and all that.

> > French resistance stiffened markedly after the
> > initial breakthrough. Basically,
> 
> Not noticably.  I mean, they didn't actually beat the
> Germans at any point.

But they gave em a bloody nose or 5. Have a look at the
German losses after the great Debacle of May. The Frogs
at Dunkirk and elsewhere did about as well as the BEF.

Not that that was exactly wonderful. Just far better than
it had been a month earlier. About as well as many
US units did in the early stages of the Bulge - many ran
away, but many fought on even though isolated and low on
supplies. Alas in 1940 there was no George S Patton with
a damn great big 3rd army to come to the rescue.
 
> After the French lost their country and most of their
> empire to collaborationist cowards (not actually
> Germans, just their toadies), they continued to
> pretend they were a great power and a major ally, not
> just a handful of beggars. 

Concur absolutely. Though some of the collaborateurs
weren't so much cowards as evil bastards, as bad or worse
than the worst of the Nazis.

> Egotism is grating--but
> it's even more grating coming from a houseguest that
> got evicted from his former apartment and has a choice
> between sleeping on the streets or living in your
> spare bedroom.

Nice analogy. Well put.
 
> As one of Churchill's advisor's once put it, "The
> problem with Charles de Gaulle is that he thinks he's
> Joan of Arc."
> 
> Churchill's response was "No, the problem is that my
> bishops won't let me burn him."

The one I heard was "The heaviest cross I have to bear
... is the Cross of Lorraine."
 
> The rest of us feel superior to the French because we
> manage NOT to get our home countries overrun 2.5 times
> in 70 years. 

Occupational hazard of living next door to Germany. 
Just ask the Poles.

> fact, one is hardpressed to think of a sucessful
> French military operation since Napoleon Bonaparte
> dropped dead with the exception of the task force that
> covered the Coalition's left flank during Desert
> Storm.  

Suez. You know, the operation where the US stabbed the
UK and France in the back? Still, it gave the USA's 
Oil cartel a big boost, it wasn't done out of spite,
just business reasons.

And at this point in time, it's worthwhile recalling
all those brave Americans who died at Omaha, Utah,
and (closer to home for me) Coral Sea. We have to
keep remembering them to get a sense of perspective
when the US starts subsidising outrageously rich
farmers yet again, thereby copying the French EU
agricultural policy at its worst, and damaging the
economies of stalwart allies like Australia.

But we *do* remember the Yanks who died for us at
Coral Sea, and somehow we can't be as outraged
as we should be. Which leads to the same thing
happening repeatedly. Sugar. Steel. Wheat. Bummer.

> Fortunately, there were no Iraqis out there,
> because I doubt the USAF could tell the difference
> between French armored cars driven by Frenchmen and
> French armored cars driven by Iraqis.  

Hell, they can't tell the difference between French
armoured cars driven by Iraqis and UK AFVs
driven by Englishmen. Or Canadians and Afghans.

*ZING!* (sound of a cheap shot)

> They are also pretty damn egotistical and have some
> serious failures in their military and civil culture
> which causes them to be percieved poorly.

Yup.

>  For
> instance, my old Squad Leader in German had run the US
> SFOR Mine Action Center as an E-6 Staff Sergeant.  A
> French captain rolls in and asks to speak to the OIC. 
> He replies he's in charge.  The French guy laughs in
> his face and insists on speaking to a "responsible
> officer."

This is so entirely believable I'd be amazed if Monsieur
le Capitaine had said anything else.

> Ask SSG Easter why he detests French officers and
> there's a real reason.  

Because they're so..... French. Concur. But with so many
good, valid reasons to bash them, why pick on the few that
are at all dubious?