RE: [ft] Fighter Momentum Conservation (was: [OT] Unpredictable A I)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Derk Groeneveld [SMTP:derk@cistron.nl]
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 3:55 AM
> To:	gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
> Subject:	Re: [OT] Unpredictable AI
> 
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Allan Goodall wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:47:17 -0400 (EDT), Roger Books
> <books@mail.state.fl.us>
> > wrote:
> >  
> > I was going to suggest that... :-) Of course, fighters aren't "truly
> > overwhelming" in high speed vector games. Well high speed games of
any
> type.
> > Get the speeds up and you can kiss fighters goodbye as a problem. 
> 
> This is what stumped me about fighters. Am I correct in that they move
> 'cinematic' in vector games? In that they retain no speed vector? It
> strikes me as really silly if I boost my carrier up to speed 35, I
launch 
> my fighters, and immediately leave them in the dust behind me? Isn't
> there a reasonable fix to this, or did I entirely misunderstand the
> subject at hand?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>    Derk
-----End Original Message-----

Yes, and No. I would not call it Cinematic (refering to the Cinematic
movement of ship), because fighters do not follow the same rules as
ships. 

But yes, fighters do not conserve momentum from one turn to the next. I
imagine that the reason this was doen was simplicity. Fighters are
already
one of the most complex and time consuming aspects of the game. When
originally concieved, they were meant to be "paperless" in that you
would
not have to keep track of any aspect of the fighter group except how
many
were left (done by switching counters from one with 6 fighters
illustrated
to one with less illustrated). When MT was introduced, it tried to
address
the problem of fighters being too powerful. It added Endurance, Morale,
New
fighter types and Ace/Turkey. Now there was 4 things to keep track of
(number, endurance, type and ace/turkey status). I think that simplicity
is
one of the reasons that some people do not play with morale or
ace/turkey
rules. The Morale rules proved to be a good balancing point for fighter,
and
thus became "standard" in FB2 (they were also figured in the cost of
fighters in FB1 design point system according to Oerjan).

I have seen systems for keeping track of fighter momentum. All, to this
point, have been somewhat less than desireable. All require additional
bookkeeping.

Option 1: Plotted move like ships. Fighters become small ships for
movement
purposes.

Option 2: Ship style movement (not plotted) [Vector]. Velocity of the
fighters needs to be recorded in some manner. I have seen this done by
having a marker for the starting point of the fighters. In the fighter
movement phase, momentum is applied to the fighter. The starting point
counter is moved to where the fighters started the turn from. And then
fighter movement is done. This method is a fair option for Vector and
only
envolves adding a counter to the table for each fighter group. However,
each
fighter group must be assigned a unique identifier (ex. number) and the
matching identifier be used on the counter, or things get confusing
quickly.
This method DOES slow down the game, but less than plotted movement.

Option 3: Ship style movement (not plotted) [Cinematic]. The velocity of
each fighter group must be recorded on a seperate sheet and kept track
of
each turn. During the fighter movement phase, the player announces the
inteded movement and then moves the fighter as a ship. I.e. the player
would
indicate +/- 24 and any turns intended (each point of turn subtracts
from
the ammount of thrust it may use) and them moves the fighters using the
stated orders (afterwhich the new velocity is recorded). 

Option 4: Ring Movement. The fighter's velocity, but not direction is
preserved. Each round the velocity of the fighter is recorded. The
fighter
may move +/- 24 in any direction desired. Secondary movement adds to the
velocity total. This can seem rather silly at greater speeds. The
fighter
(with a velocity of 36) can move directly to the aft 12-72. The option
is
named due to the area of validity for the fighter end movement, at speed
greater than 24, it becomes a ring.

Option 5: Oblong movement. The course and speed of the fighter need to
be
marked in some manner. The fighter's movement is based on the arc it
wants
to move into (using fireing arc. Fore: current velocity +/-24. FP/FS:
current velocity +/- 15. AP/AS: current velocity +/-0. Aft: current
velocity
-12 (minimum 0).

As I stated before. All optoions add to the complexity and length of the
game. 

-----
Brian Bell
bbell1@insight.rr.com
http://www.ftsr.org/
-----