Re: DS2/SG2 harminization - replies to Brian and Andrew

Okay, I guess its time I spoke up on this one...
(re:  GMS/P not snipers)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Barclay" <kaladorn@fox.nstn.ca>
To: <gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 3:34 AM
Subject: DS2/SG2 harminization - replies to Brian and Andrew

> Re Brians comments on GMS/P:
> I get the impression from Oerjan (unless he
> cares to pipe up) that a GMS/P has about the
> same warhead as GMS/L, only the sighting and
> propulsion behind it is different. Ergo range is
> probably the big factor (I'd bet many shoulder
> fired missiles can't reach 2400m due to the
> inability to target or the lack of fuel).

Actually, I think the specific comment was that current day or near
future
GMS/P and GMS/L warheads were the same, which is not quite the same
thing.

> I'd be
> tempted to keep the range to 18". 24" makes
> them very dangerous. Anyone know what the
> range for a Javelin is today? The problem here
> is that even with some improvement in propellent
> technology, you've still go the weight/size trade
> off (vs. range) that makes a GMS/P a normal
> squad weapon.

Exactly--which is why, given a set mass, you (weapon designer or gov't
contracting official or military doctine guru) may want a lighter
warhead
GMS/P with extra fuel.	And isn't the Javelin a SAM?  Or are we talking
about a different Javelin?

> Heavy Weapon because it contains the fuel!
>
> So we have (or should probalby have):
>
> IAVR short range (400-600m), punchy (2
> chits), immune to ECM or EW (but should be
> stoppable by PDS according to Oerjan). Troop
> can carry multiples of these and use them for
> close in tank defence.
>
> GMS/P  longer range (1800m), punchy (2
> chits), affected by ECM, PDS, ADS and EW.
> Troop can put one of these in a big squad and
> fire it in place of squad fire (like an IAVR) but
> has limited shots. Can also be put in two man
> teams.

The problem is that this isn't consistent with Stargrunt--where the
GMS/P
has 1/2 the penetration of the GMS/L, IIRC.

>
> GMS/L  real long range (3600m) (for infantry...
> still only middling for vehicle range weaponry),
> punchy (3 chits), affected by ECM, PDS, ADS,
> EW. Troop can have one of these with tripod in
> place of normal infantry weapons (retain close
> in defence weapons). Limited shots. Can't really
> be put in a normal rifle squad as an "alternate
> weapon" as it is just a bit too big (as is the
> ammo).
>

Okay, here's my alternate look on it--You have three (or four) different
warheads, GMS/P, IAVR, and GMS/H (add GMS/M) between the IAVR and GMS/H
if
you are using that intermediate one).

The GMS/P warhead is the lightest and allows a rocket just a little
bigger
than an IAVR to carry sufficient fuel and a guidance system to make long
range (however you define that) shots practicable.  The rocket size is
important as we are talking about a weapon that is about as portable as
a
SAW.

The IAVR warhead is the next in line, and is used as the payload on the
IAVR
(of course) and the GMS/L.  More punch than the GMS/L, but in the very
portable version (IAVR) no guidance and shorter range.

GMS/M and GMS/H are just heavier and heavier warheads, with more, and
more
again, propellant, for longer flight times.  And of course the guidance
to
make this all useable.

Whether you use 18" or 24" range for GMS/P, I'd still say you should
limit
it to one chit, but allow it to be an integral weapon in rifle teams (if
cost is paid, of course).  And yes, that is still a practical weapon in
DS2.

> Thomas.
>

Rob (just adding another 2 pfennings worth--I just wish they hadn't
deleted
the "cents" symbol from keyboards).