Re: The United States in Full Thrust

----- Original Message -----
From: Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: The United States in Full Thrust

>    Sorry John, you're mistaken.  Oh, the people actually living in
> Rome undoubted figured it out earlier (when all the Germanic lads kept
> marching through), but there were people in the western Empire who
> would have denied that the empire had fallen.  IIRC Charlemagne was
> crowned as Roman emperor on Christmas Day in 800 -- it was the idea

Some third-rate Rex Francia doesn't count, regardless of the opinion of
the
Bishop of Rome.

But I doubt anyone had any real delusions that this hopped-up thug had
anything to do with G. Julius Caeser or any other actual Roman.  There
is no
continuity.  Hell, he couldn't even read Latin.

But the legal truth aside, the simple fact is that (outside the
surviving
section of the Roman Empire which was misnamed Byzantine) there was no
people who identified themselves as Romans.  Franks, yes.  Lombards,
yes.
Burgundians, Goths (Ostro- and Visi-), and a baker's dozen of assorted
Germanic trash.  But Romans?  Hell, under the Empire most of the
population
of Gaul didn't identify themselves as Romans per se.  Most of the
population
of the provinces (outside Italia) weren't citizens.  Citizenship was
hereditary down the male line, but the original inhabitants of the
provinces
had to earn citizenship, most frequently by 25 years service in auxilla
units.	25 years honorable service.  That's why St. Paul made a point of
his
citizenship--his father had earned it the hard way, and it was an
important
distinction from the rest of the inhabitants of the Empire.

> that was important, perhaps, rather than the strict line of
> succession.  (and it may have been helped by the fact that people
> aren't very observant of mere facts that fly in the face of Truth).
> Later on, the Byzantines claimed to be Romans

Laser. . . I've heard of this idea before. . . But the area under
discussion
was mostly the Western half. . .

John from Don's Computer
Romanus Est. . .