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RE: [FT][computer] Has anyone considered...

From: "Bell, Brian K" <Brian_Bell@d...>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:58:27 -0400
Subject: RE: [FT][computer] Has anyone considered...
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It should not. I probably have not made myself clear.

My system would store 360 degrees of yaw, 360 degrees of ascent/descent
(OK,
180 is enough) and Velocity. This combination produces a three
dimensional
"direction" and distance.

Course is determined from current location using yaw and ascent/descent
for
a distance of Velocity. I don't understand the ambiguity. If a course is
90
by 0 (same plane) moving 100, you would end up a different place than a
course of 90 by 90 ascent moving 100 or course of 90 by 90 descent (-90)
moving 100. You are correct, however if you mean that 360,360,V could
come
up with some nonsensical figures, so I amend it to 360yaw,
+90/-90ascent,
velocity

And you are correct, that you would need to convert my system into
vector to
get the new position of the ship. Under your system, you would need to
convert the orders into vector, create the new vector, and then convert
the
vector back in to course headings to provide the player the information.
Both sides require conversion, the question is just where. Unless you
are
going to provide the player with the beginning and ending coordinates
and
let him figure it out for himself.

The advantage of my system (I think) is that it will be easier for the
player to determine where the ship will end up if the orientation of the
ship and the course are presented in the same fashion.

In other words if the player is presented with a ship that has:
Location: 30, 60, 100 (x, y, z)
Orientation: 220, -60, 30 (yaw, ascent, roll)
Course: 130, 5, 20 (yaw, ascent, velocity)
Note: Yaw, Ascent, and roll are defined from galactic norm, not
from
the view of the ship)

Rather than:
Location: 30, 60, 100 (x, y, z)
Previous Location: 40, 80, 90 (x, y, z)
Orientation: 220, -60, 30 (yaw, ascent, roll)
Note: The two examples do not match. I did not do the math

I think that my version would make it easier to see that yaw is 95
degrees
and ascent is 48 degrees off from coups than from the other version.

Also, as a player, I would not want to have to calculate my orders into
3-D
vector before providing them. This should be done by the program. It
makes
my head hurt to try to figure out how to order a ship to push port 1
(using
current orientation), roll to 30 degrees, yaw to120 degrees, change
ascent
to 60 degrees and burn 4 (MD 6 ship).

If you convert, again, then it is just a mater of when you convert.

If you are playing real-time and the graphics can present course,
location,
and orientation, then providing the numbers is less a factor. If you are
playing a turn based game or the graphics cannot provide the information
visually (such as FTMAP), then you need to provide the information to
the
player on location, orientation, course and velocity.

I will concede that your method may be superior for calculation of
movement,
but not for providing information to the player or accepting orders from
the
player. Either system will need to convert information from course and
velocity to vector and back. Which you store and when you convert is a
mater
of preference.

Anyway thanks for pointing out the 360-360 problem.

-----
Brian Bell
bkb@beol.net
-----

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Francis [SMTP:tony.francis@kuju.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 8:00 AM
> To:	gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> Subject:	Re: [FT][computer] Has anyone considered...
>
[snip]

In fact you only need store [180x 360y Vely].

[snip]

To derive the final velocity under my system you simply add the vectors
together
to get [77.78, 0.0, 63.64]. Under yours ... errr, I'll let you work it
out
(any
solution I derive would involve converting your course format into a
vector,
calculating the sum and converting it back again). The answer is
[0.0deg,
50.71deg, 100.49] (I think - it's Monday and I've just done this on a
scrap
of
paper).

[snip]

> An additional problem with your system that's just occurred to me is
one
> of
> ambiguity. A course of [90deg 0deg 100] actually gives the same result
as
> one of
> [90deg 90deg 100], or in fact [90deg ANYdeg 100]. This may or may not
be a
> problem depending on what you want to do with the course.
>
> Tony
>

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