Re: interesting Glen's designs/gaming

Glen Bailey wrote:

>>>When you play against someone using "FX" & "RX" weapons so that
>>>they end up shooting at you more often than you shoot at them then
>>>you tend to lose, or at least I do.
>>
>>OTOH, "FX" and "RX" weapons are so big that a narrower-arced ship
>>often outguns them quite impressively in the initial salvoes. The
trick >>(OK, one of them) is to hit them hard enough in those salvoes
that >>they don't get any *more* salvoes off while you're turning back
for >>your next attack ;-)
> 
>In THEORY (said in a Homer Simpson-style sarcastic voice) this >seems
plausible, but in practice it never worked that way. Unless you >want
to play with MD2 ships you will never double up on the amount of
>weapons the enemy has since you'll need more space for drives.

I don't doubt that it has worked this way for you, but my own
experience has been the direct opposite. You don't need to "double up
on the amount of weapons"; you only need to fire 30-50% in *beam dice*
than he can return in order to "outgun him impressively" - and when he
uses 5-arc Class-3s (B3-5s, using my shorthand), that's not terribly
hard to do even if your total weapon *Mass* is considerably smaller
than his.

When facing a thrust-1 ship armed with B3-5s, you can have a thrust-*6*
ship and still at least match him die for die in the 0-12 range band by
using B2-3s (and with that thrust advantage, you should be able to
avoid the other range bands where you're likely to be outgunned as well
as keep him in your fire arcs). If you go to thrust-4, you should match
him in the 12-24 band and outgun him by some 50% in beam dice in the
0-12 band, and you still have enough maneuverability to keep him in
your fire arcs and mostly avoid the 24-36 band. Even if he reverts to
B2-6s or -5s instead of B3-5s (as on the thrust-2 BB you uploaded), a
thrust-4 ship with B2-3s can at least match him die-for die, and
probably outgun him.

This is why I find the large number of large, many-arc beam weapons
interesting :-)

>It also doesn't help that Steve rolls like a demon, especially when
>firing on my ships or even my designed ships that someone else is
>running.  Hmm, maybe that's why no one bothers looking at my >designs
to play any more?

<g> Could be... like the jinx which makes the NAC shunned by everyone
here <g>

>>>I'm not a missile man, and I have this knack for hitting BJs when I
do
>>>use them.
>>
>>I usually try to destroy BJs before the missiles go in
> 
>Steve's BJs are not really BJs, most are mass 34 missile destroyers
>with about 5 armor and 10 hull.  A salvo taking one out is a good
>thing, but not when 6-8 salvoes hit it.

Better still; then you won't have as big qualms targetting them as
other players seem to have when faced by "true", ie. TMF3-6, BJs (I've
heard several players scorn shooting at them because it means "wasting
shots"... as if the missiles wouldn't be wasted if the BJs are still
there to dilute the alpha launch :-/ ) 

In this case I might even go for an "open sheaf" with the early missile
launch, deliberately trying to hit as many of his escorts as possible
with the first missile salvo instead of killing them with beams only.

>I may to try a wave approach the next time I want to use missiles.
>The first wave is the heavies to target the BJs and then the
>missile ships follow with salvoes on the next turn.  They have
>to be a bit back or they'll be the first ships the enemy targets.

Either keep them behind the first wave, or make them sturdy enough to
survive one turn of enemy attention. A variant of the latter is to use
FSE-style ships with both missiles and beams on most or all of your
ships; that way you're not as vulnerable to losing a "key" ship early
on but you lose some "instant kill" power in the direct-fire phase.
 
>Re: wet navy style BBs
>>
>>The ones on your page had only 6-8 PDS, which isn't that much. As I
>>said, they need some serious ADFC-equipped support ships... the
>>Atlantas you mention sound quite appropriate :-)
> 
>But two together is 12-16 PDS, plus 5-7 class-1 beams for the
>missile-targeted ship.

12-16 PDS plus half a dozen or so B1s are IME enough to comfortably
stop 4 SM salvoes, but starts getting stretched against 6 (unless of
course Steve rolls as many sixes for his PDS as he does against your
ships!). I'd expect around 8-10 salvoes per turn from a 2000-point
SML-armed fleet, which is more than I'd be willing to face with the
above PD cover. With SMRs, the alpha strike is probably even heavier
(IIRC your fleets are around 2000 points per player, thus the
2000-point reference :-/ ). Against a ship with only 1 thrust point
available for turning all missile salvoes should end up within 6mu, so
there won't be many wasted salvoes either.
 
>>BTW, are the "multi-system" turrets destroyed by a single needle hit?
> 
>No, that would give needle beams too much of an advantage.

Thought so. OTOH, you wrote that the turrets are treated as a single
system for threshold checks and repair rolls, so treating them as a
single system vs needles as well looked plausible as well.

>>>He was happy to get to speed 10 whereupon the crew would break
>>>out the champagne (now it's at speed 20 with the MD2 ships).
>>
>>Pretty impressive. Sounds like a fairly large table, and/or floating
>>edges?
> 
>The table is 6' x 8' (183cm x 244cm) and we do play with a
>floating map.	Lately he hasn't gotten up to speed 20 but
>staying in the 12-16 speed range or otherwise his turning
>arc is too large.

I don't remember if you measure in inches or cm - 183 x 244 mu is a
*lot* more than 72 x 96 mu - but with floating edges the physical table
size doesn't matter very much. It seems to have a psychological hold on
some players, but that's it <g> 12-16 sounds pretty normal for thrust-2
ships (ie., that's how fast I fly them too <G>)

>All this will be moot in two weeks as Steve is leaving for
Jacksonville, >Florida, about an 8 hour drive from Miami. And in one of
the last FT >sessions we'll have while he's here I'll be at Origins. 
We also lost >another player this week (moving away), another is ill
and not getting >better so he hasn't been around much, and another has
a varying
>work schedule.  Good thing Matt and Andy are still here. (hi guys!)

I moved to another city (in the British sense of the word) a year and a
half back, but fortunately it only extended the travel time to my old
gaming opponents by half an hour or so :-/ 

>PS. I give up, I can't figure out what PSB stands for.
>But I'll take a stab at it: Point System Balance?

Pseudo-Scientific Bullshit (MT p.33) :-)

Later,

Oerjan Ohlson
oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
- Hen3ry