RE: Ummm... actually...

Hi Brian,

What you have actually done is extrapolated what the manual has defined
by
the comment "Therefore, the wider you swing your barrel from side to
side,
the wider your cone of dispersion, and hence the longer your beaten
zone....."

The beaten zone is the pattern a burst of fire lays down on a fixed
bearing
and elevation....if you move the weapon then you move the beaten
zone....

An artillery Beaten Zone is the area in which rounds from a Battery or
Gun
Section will fall. Each gun actually lays on a slightly different
bearing
and elevation to deliver a set beaten zone. These are templated and a
Battery CP allocates Guns separate bearings/elevations depending on the
target description to acheive specific target coverage. Nothing
comparable
really to effect an enfilade.

To give you some ideas of Beaten Zones for the MAG58(M60 is very
similar);
these figures are based on bursts of 20 rounds:

500m - 1mx87m
1000m - 2mx79m
1500m - 3mx71m
2000m - 4mx62m
2500m - 5mx54m
3000m - 6mx46m this is considered to Max Eff Range for the weapon.

Moving the weapons bearing (azimuth) during firing doesn't improve it's
beaten zone. Quite the contrary; it decreases it's effectiveness.

So you are still most effective placing weapons at the long end of the
target regardless of weapon type.

[Lecture Mode Off]  :-)

Cheers,

Owen G

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Bilderback [mailto:bbilderback@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, 14 February 2000 5:31
> To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> Subject: Ummm... actually...
> 
> 
> Now that I read what you wrote and re-read the manual, I have 
> to retract my 
> agreement with you.  The manual does not say laying the axis 
> of fire along 
> the axis of the column, it says laying the beaten zone along 
> the column. As 
> I said before, it further defines the beaten zone as where 
> the shots forming 
> the come of dispersion strike.  The cone of dispersion is 
> defined as "A 
> conical shaped pattern formed by the trajectories of a group 
> of shots fired 
> from the same weapon with the same sight setting."  Now, if I 
> understand the 
> sight setting properly, that means where the weapon is when 
> it fires.  
> Therefore, the wider you swing your barrel from side to side, 
> the wider your 
> cone of dispersion, and hence the longer your beaten zone.  
> Now, if you're 
> off to one side of a column of enemy soldiers/vehicles, and 
> you swing your 
> barrel (whether a personal weapon, a SAW on a tripod, or a 
> RFAC in a turret) 
> along that column as you fire, the axis of that column 
> corresponds with your 
> beaten zone, and is therefore coming under Enfilade fire.  
> That was my 
> point, and was the reason I was arguing that using the 
> proposed strafing 
> rules for fire from ground units need not apply only to 
> firing units in 
> direct line with the column being attacked.  This is 
> especially true against 
> harder targets, since carry-through of fire is not that 
> effective against 
> thick-skinned vehicles. you want to be off to one side where 
> you can fire 
> along the entire column.  Mind you, in DS II, given the 
> ground scale, the 
> beaten zone should not be very long-- say 1 inch per class of 
> weapon, maybe 
> even less, but still, it's an idea...
> 
> Brian Bilderback
> 
> "The Irish are the only race of people on Earth for which 
> psychoanalysis is 
> of no use."
> 
>				   - S. Freud
> 
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Glover, Owen" <oglover@museum.vic.gov.au>
> Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> To: "'gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU'" <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
> Subject: RE: RFACS
> Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:04:59 +1000
> 
> Hi Brian,
> 
> Artillery fire is different to small arms fire. As the good 
> manual states,
> Enfilade fire is laying the axis of fire on the long axis of 
> a target. Why
> enfilade? Because the passage of rounds will likely strike a 
> subsequent body
> if it misses (sometimes even if it hits!) a previous body. 
> Actually quite
> different to "walking" artillery/mortar fire along a target.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Owen G
> 
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: Brian Bilderback [mailto:bbilderback@hotmail.com]
>  > Sent: Monday, 14 February 2000 2:38 PM
>  > To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
>  > Subject: Re: RFACS
>  >
>  >
>  > Why along the same line? The Guidebook for Marines (No, I
>  > never was one, but
>  > it's a good read) defines enfilade fire as "Fire delivered on
>  > a target so
>  > that the beaten zone of the fire coincides with the long axis
>  > of the target
>  > (fire in the direction of the length of a line or column)."
>  > Sounds like
>  > your definition, until you further read that the beaten zone
>  > is defined as
>  > "The space on the ground or target on which the shots forming
>  > the cone of
>  > dispersion strike." This is why in DS II an artillery beaten
>  > zone can be
>  > either along or perpendicular to the flight of the salvo.	In
>  > the same way,
>  > if a turreted vehicle were some distance off from a column of
>  > infantry, and
>  > perpendicular to the line of advance/axis of the column, and
>  > walked it's
>  > fire from one end of the column to the other, the entire
>  > column would be
>  > within it's beaten zone, and would be taking enfilade fire.
>  >
>  > Brian Bilderback
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > From: "Andrew Martin" <Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz>
>  > Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
>  > To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
>  > Subject: Re: RFACS
>  > Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:49:26 +1300
>  >
>  > Andrew wrote:
>  >  > The strafing rule could also apply to shooting along a 
> column. Each
>  > element in column draws chits according to weapon class.
>  >
>  > Note that the shooting vehicle, VTOL or aerospace element/s
>  > have to be in
>  > line with the column. For example, along the same road, if a
>  > German tank
>  > ace.
>  >
>  > Andrew Martin
>  > ICQ: 26227169
>  > http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/
>  > -><-
>  >
>  >
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> 
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