Re: [DS2] Heavy Gears, redux . . .

At 04:24 PM 2/4/00 -0800, MWS wrote:
>Thanks for all of the comments and feedback on my "how to convert"
question
>re the Heavy Gear walkers.  One of the reasons I was trying to fit them
>into the current design rules is to make them "legal" for pick-up type
>games.  However, it just isn't going to work out that way <g>, so I
figured
>I'd try and come up with the "closest approximation" that stayed true
to
>the technology.

Yup.  It is possible to make them more-or-less legal, but then they're
not
as close to the universe.  So... it's a balancing act.

>1) Size.  Someone suggested that Gears are more properly Size 2 vehicle
>instead of Size 1.  On further thought, I will have to agree with this.
>Looking back over the VCS - Heavy Gear's vehicle construction system, a
>Gear is roughly equivalent to an ACP/IFV in armor strength, and is
firmly
>in the "over 4m" height range.

Well... not the case, for the scout and GP gears.  I still stand by
those
as being closer to size 1.

>This also solves the size / number of weapons limit problem for at
least
>the basic Hunter & Jaeger, since they have 2 main anti-armor weapons
and 1
>anti-infantry weapon.

Yeah, but that is, in my experience, the first restriction to get tossed
out the airlock.  (Um, wait, that's a space metaphor... out the window,
yeah.)	I don't think I've ever designed vehicles that follow that
restriction in the game, unless it was by accident (or an APC, since
troops
take up a lot of space).

Points 2) and 3) covered below....

>==================================================================
>Heavy Gears for DS2
[snip]
>Movement: Gears have two different movement rates.  The slower rate
uses
>the Combat Walker movement rules, while the higher rate uses the High
>Mobility Wheeled movement rules.  This reflects the Primary/Secondary
>movement systems used in the original HG game.  Cost for the dual
movement
>system is 120%.

I'd argue for a slightly higher cost, since HMW is 30% and combat walker
is
100%.  Yes, I know Gears are supposed to be cheap, but this is going to
give you a definite bonus in the game... I'd say (cost of more expensive
system)+(150% cost of less expensive system) as a general basis, so 145%
cost for the dual movement system.

This could also let you play with making the heavier Gears fast tracked
instead of wheeled; HG itself doesn't make the distinction, but the
heavier
Gears *do* use tracks.	Plus it opens up using transport walker movement
for some of the striders, for example.	(Hard to see a Mammoth or Fire
Dragon doing a Run move, in my mind.)

>Movement Rates:
>   Cheetahs:		    12/16
>   Iguanas:		    10/14
>   Hunters & Jaegers:	     8/12
>   Jaguars & Black Mambas: 10/14
>   Grizzlys & Cobras:	     6/10

Mmm... fair enough, I suppose, though there's no reason not to just take
the movement levels for the respective Gears from HG, e.g. Griz would
have
6/11, Cheetah 11/15, instead of rounding whichever way.

>Movement Damage: Gears must specify which movement system they are
using
>for the turn, and must use that system for the whole turn.  Movement
damage
>chits affect the currently active system only.

That's one reason why I think they should pay extra for it, not get a
discount.  Besides, you have to pay extra for it in the HG design rules,
too....

>Power Plants:	Most Gears are run by highly efficient V-Engines, which
>equate to CFEs in DS2 but cost out at 25%.  Stealth Gears use
>superconducting battery packs, which are equivalent to HMTs.

Any Gear using a laser/particle beam will also need an HMT-equivalent
engine, to pay for the rechargable battery packs for the weapons. 
(Though
I did dig up a Kodiak design I made some time ago, and I'd used an MDC
for
the particle beam, instead of a laser.	This was also where I costed the
movement system out as being more expensive, per above.)

>Size: Most Gears are on the small size of Size 2.  Grizzlys and Cobras
are
>a small Size 3, while striders are either Size 3 (Nagas) or 4
(Mammoths).

...maybe.  I'd strip one away from each of those, with the exception of
the
Naga.  We'll see; this could be a point to jsut disagree on and leave it
at
that.

>Armor: Armor on a Gear is the same strength on all sides, and is
considered
>to be equal to the size rating.  The exception to this is the Black
Mamba,
>which has a -1 armor rating in its direct Rear arc only.

The Glass Back strikes again, though with the rear-arc penalties in the
game that may be something to just apply in general: one level lower
from
the top and rear.  (Unlike DSII in general, which is 1 arc lower from
top,
rear and sides.)

>Weapon Mounts: Gears are allowed one hand-held weapon.  This weapon is
>treated as Fixed Mount for design purposes, but has a 180 degree arc of
>fire as per the normal Combat walker rules.  All other major weapons
are
>also Fixed Mount, but only have a 90 degree fire arc.	This represents
the
>fact that they are torso mounted, and you have to turn the entire torso
to
>aim them.  Anti-infantry weapons are Fixed Mount / 180 degree arc per
the
>normal Combat Walker rules.

There are exceptions to this as well; the Hunter Zerstorer comes to
mind.
Besides, the Gears can switch hand weapons, if so equipped -- DPGs, for
example.

>Weapon Conversions:  Here is a partial list of weapon equivalencies.
>
>  Auto-Cannons (disposable/light/medium/heavy)
>    DPG: RFAC size 2, treat all "3" chits as "0", cost 7
>    LAC: RFAC size 2, treat all "3" chits as "1", cost 8

What's wrong with calling these out as RFAC/1s?

>    MAC: RFAC size 2, treat all "3" chits as "2", cost 9
>    HAC: RFAC size 2
>
>  Rocket Packs (light/medium/heavy)
>    LRP: SLAM size 2, treat all "3" chits as "2", Range 8"/16"/24",
cost 16
>    MRP: SLAM size 2, Range 8"/16"/24", cost 20

Technically doesn't exist, but that's one rule I was considering
breaking
as well.  (SLAMs less than size 3, that is.)  The range mods should
work,
though you could also try a SLAM/1 at 4/8/12" ranges.  (No, it's not
going
to do a lot of damage -- why should it?)  I know you said above that the
pods were the "heavy hitters", but that's still relative; in order to
hurt
the bigger, better defended Gears you've built, you've had to up the
strength of the weaponry as well, such that it is now becoming overly
effective against the tanks that Gears normally have a *lot* of trouble
against.  (Trust me, that's a battle I've fought a few times.)	Rocket
pods
are *not* a tankbusting weapon, and if they have to be used as such your
Gear is in *entirely* the wrong place.

On the flip side, I think I have talked myself away from calling scout
and
the GP gears only size:1, if only to be able to fit the tankbusting
equipment certain models will carry.  (E.g., the 106mm snub cannon on
the
Assault Hunter....)  Maybe... for the Hunter, anyway, since the armor
difference with the Cheetah is pretty significant.  (Okay, okay, I admit
it: I'm a Northie in the game, I don't look at the Southern Gears much.
Except as targets....)

>    HRP: SLAM size 3

I guess this is one reason to make the Heavies size:3; you need the
space
for the SLAMs!	Not sure I like it that much, though, since they're now
becoming *way* more effective against tanks than they should be.

>  Anti-Personel Grenade Launchers (APGL)
>    Same as APSW, except that Jaguars and Black Mambas 
>    have a 360 degree arc of fire, while all others have 
>    only a 180 degree front arc.

Instead, take two APSWs and specify one as covering the rear arc, the
other
the front arc.	No sense in tying it down to only specifc Gear models.
Especially since it is only the Mamba that has this, not the Jaguar.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Standard Configurations: There are 4 basic types of Heavy Gears from
each
>faction.  The standard Northern Gears are the Cheetah (scout), Hunter
(GP
>trooper), Jaguar (advanced tech trooper), and Grizzly (fire support).
>Their Southern equivalents are the Iguana, Jaeger, Black Mamba, and
>(Spitting) Cobra.  With the exception of the Cheetah and Iguana scout
>gears, the equivalent gears from both sides are almost identical in
>function as far as DS2 mechanics are concerned and are listed as such.
>
>Cheetah Heavy Gear - Northern scout gear
>----------------------------------------
>Size Class:  2
>Signature:   3 (d8)
>Stealth:     level 1 (reduces signature to 2)
>Mobility:    Combat Walker / High Mobility wheeled
>Basic Move:  12 / 16
>Point Value: 100
>Firecon:     advanced (d8)
>ECM:	      none

On the contrary -- the scout Gears (both Cheetah and Iggy) are the
primary
easy-to-get ECM carriers.  Of course, it doesn't have quite the same
effect
over the whole table in DS as it does in HG, but in HG I know the ECM
*definitely* keeps those guided missiles away a little better....

>Armor:       2 (*see note)
>Weapons:  DPG, LRP, APGL
>
>*Armor Note: Opponents hitting a Cheetah with a weapon of Size 2 or
greater
>draw +1 damage chit.
>
>Iguana Heavy Gear - Southern scout/light trooper gear
>-----------------------------------------------------
>Size Class:  2
>Signature:   3 (d8)
>Stealth:     level 1 (reduces signature to 2)
>Mobility:    Combat Walker / High Mobility wheeled
>Basic Move:  10 / 14
>Point Value: 100
>Firecon:     advanced (d8)
>ECM:	      none
>Armor:       2
>Weapons:  DPG, LRP, APGL
>
>Hunter/Jaeger Heavy Gear - GP trooper gear
>------------------------------------------
>Size Class:  2
>Signature:   3 (d8)
>Stealth:     none
>Mobility:    Combat Walker / High Mobility wheeled
>Basic Move:  8 / 12
>Point Value: 61
>Firecon:     advanced (d8)
>ECM:	      none
>Armor:       2
>Weapons:  LAC, LRP, APGL
>
>Jaguar/Black Mamba Heavy Gear - advanced tech trooper gear
>----------------------------------------------------------
>Size Class:  2
>Signature:   3 (d8)
>Stealth:     level 1  (reduces signature to 2)
>Mobility:    Combat Walker / High Mobility wheeled
>Basic Move:  10 / 14
>Point Value: 125
>Firecon:     superior (d10)
>ECM:	      basic (d6)

Is this (and the level 1 stealth) just for general increased
survivability?

>Armor:       2 (*see note)
>Weapons:  MAC, MRP, APGL
>
>*Armor note: The Black Mamba has Class 1 armor in the direct rear (60
>degree) arc only.  
>
>Grizzly/Cobra Heavy Gear - fire support gear
>--------------------------------------------
>Size Class:  3
>Signature:   4 (d8)

d6....

>Stealth:     none
>Mobility:    Combat Walker / High Mobility wheeled
>Basic Move:  6 / 10
>Point Value: 134
>Firecon:     advanced (d8)
>ECM:	      none
>Armor:       3
>Weapons:  HAC, MRP, HRP, APGL

Well... overall, it's neat, but isn't something I'd field against any
force
not designed under that same system.  I'll also stand by my statements
that
you're making the Gears *too* effective, and too large.

Well, more to follow, in my own post.  Might as well re-write what I'd
had
to begin with....

					Aaron