Re: FT tactics vs slow ships, tiny ships are toast

btw, we allow firing out the rear arc.

1) his BJs aren't that small.  Either 14 mass with a C2 beam, or mass 24

with a C2 beam and 2 SMRs, now redesigned as mass 34 and extended
ranging the 2 SMRs.  Not easy to take out with any small to medium sized
ship.

2) so you come in from out of range to within 12".  Unless you have the
initiative, more than likely at close range he'll destroy or cripple
half your
force, you get 1 shot to do some damage, then his second ship destroys
or cripples the remainder.  So now many points are tied up in ships that
are either destroyed or out of the fight.  And what does your 1 shot do?
Dink some armor?  Take out 1 very small BJ (leaving another 5)?  With
initiative you get two shots.  I've looked as using small ships, I just
don't see them as a winning solution, ever.
Have you faced 26 beam dice of damage from one ship?  Figure on six of
those being 6s?  Add in four 5s.  Figure on two of the rerolls as 6s.
It's not pretty to be on the receiving end.

I'll see if I can get one of his designs.  I've created various similar 
designs:
(think of the WW2 BBs)
Mass 184, Maneuver 1, FTL, weak hull, 20 armor;
weapons: 8 C3s with 5 arcs, 4 at AP+FP+F+FS+AS, 4 at FP+AP+A+AS+FS
(4 quad turrets, 2 forward and 2 aft); 2 C2s with 6 arcs (secondaries);
8 C1s;
2 pulse torpedoes, AP+FP, FS+AS (I don't know why he added these
recently);
6 PDS, 1 ADFC (so if two "BBs" are present that's 12 PDS to deal with),
4 FCs.
Cost: 658

Sorry, that's 36 beam dice.  Make it 72 with 2 of these in a 1500 pt
fleet.
Figure the rest of the points are SMR missile boats that act as BJs as
well.

Tell me a tactic that works against this.  Cinematic movement.	I know
your
first response: SMs.  Give me a sample fleet of this and then try one
without
overdoing the SMs (I try to stay in a Star Trek flavor since I use those
miniatures most of the time).

Glen
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From: "Oerjan Ohlson" <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com>

> Someone suggested using small ships to make a high speed pass,
> to either 1) needle beam his drives, 2) knock out his "bonzai
jammers"
> and then launch missiles.  I see this as a waste of points.

You don't need small ships to use needle beams or knock out Banzai
jammers. I used small ships to knock out BJs in the recent - well, not
so recent now - FSE vs NSL battles I reported to the list, but that was
mainly because the FSE doesn't have any larger ships which don't use
SMs :-/

> 1) against any large ship, especially with us, 4 FC is not uncommon.
> So he'll destroy 4 tiny ships with his first ship.  The next 4 with
> the next big ship if the fleets are large enough.  Figuring on a
> 1 hit point ship with its special weapon, mass of 6 or 7, costing
> about 25, means to have any chance you need 8 (or more).
> There's goes 200 points.  *poof*  gone.

If those 200 pts can kill enough of his BJs to allow your Salvo
Missiles to kill 150 pts of battleship each, it's still worth it.

> 2) Fast ships don't gain any defenses from speed.

Completely wrong IMO. Fast ships gain the ability to not be in the
range bands where the slow ships outgun them - range band 3 (24-36 mu)
in your case. Being able to avoid getting outshot definitely counts as
"defenses" in my book.