FMA Skirmish guns and grenades

> ---------------------- REPLY -----------------------
> It is single shot because of the time scale.... and because I wanted
> there to be ammo tracking.
> ---------------------- END REPLY -----------------------
>

Maybe then just talk how many attacks you get per mag rather than how
many
rounds (I still think in 15 seconds given on aimed semi-auto fire at
anything other than longer ranges you would be popping off several
rounds
per target.) But it's really slicing hairs.  BTW what's the ammo
tracking
mechanism? And is there then a	 reload action?

** I wanted to do rounds. For me there is a reload action. Or
alternately, a roll. I think it could be like CC. You could attempt a
"rapid load", but if you blow the roll, it takes you an action.

Of course you already address this with the fact that firing auto
gives
you more attacks per firing action. That covers the getting hit with
more
rounds. You could expend two bursts on the guy to get him down, even
if
impact fails on the first pass.

** Good point. I'll try it out in some sort of invert fashion and see
how it works. Adrian Johnson is coming down this weekend - so he and I
will try some skirmishing Monday next.

> Did I miss something in the rules? Is there a differnce between
> standing, kneeling and Prone (BTW Jon make some damn
> prone SG2 figs!!!!) I've been using In position in my FMA tests.
>
> ---------------------- REPLY -----------------------
> I didn't see it, but in a Skirmish game, there probably should be.
We
> all know laying on the range, not having
> to support the weapon, your accuracy increases. We also know using a
> rest when kneeling or sitting makes you pretty accurate too. And as
> you've pointed out, posture should affect how grenades affect you.
And
> it occurs to me your target profile is a big function of this too -
a
> prone figure being fired on is MUCH harder to hit than a standing
> figure in the open.
>

How would this come into effect, Range band shifts? (negated by aimed
fire) Might be too harsh though...We could simplify it into up or down
(same as in position) with one shift instead of three (Unless you get
onto
die roll modifiers which is what the system avoids) I'll have to
playtest
some options this weekend.

** I thought a RB shift was too much. My answer was:
standing with rest or kneeling: add +1"/2"/4"/8"/16" to RB
kneeling with rest or prone: add +2"/4"/8"/16"/32" to RB

It is less than a 1 RB shift, but it is something. And note, green
troops get more out of a rest than elite - the elite are steadier
normally.... green still haven't got musketry down pat...

> I also wish there was a way to bring this a tad closer to stargrunt.
> What I'm beating around the bush about is the
> ability to move multiple figures in one activation. Something like
if
> you are within two inches of your squad leader
> and everyone passes a task check, then they can move/fire together.
> Makes leaders a tad more important in FMA, allows
> for some coordinated moves and fire groups. Would be especially
> important in CQB and room clearing. The downside is
> people that close would fall under the effect of your area fire so
you
> can weigh the benifits vs hazards..
>
> ---------------------- REPLY -----------------------
> How bout this:
> Joint activation for units under a commander:
> Commander gives an order. If it is comms, he must make a comms roll.
> (can be jammed a la EW). If it gets
> through, he rolls his quality versus the combination of his and his
> targets motivation. If he can yell at the target in person (say
target
> is closer than commander quality meters (5" for veteran, 6" for
elite,
> etc)), give him a +1 on this roll.
>

OK I understand he rolls his quality die, (Say a reg D8 beating a 2)
now
he's shouting to two guys within 3". Both are reg 3s. SO in both cases
the
command attempt has to beat a 3? Or are you saying that in both
attempts
he must roll higher than a 5? (3+2) (I like the latter)

** The latter, like a transfer action in SG2. Trying to preserve
similar mechanics to make knowing one game like knowing the other. The
shout is automatic at 3" for a regular. It's just the transfer he
rolls for. Roll a d8 for him for each target, he has to beat (in your
example) 5 on both rolls to get them moving (unmotivated slackers that
they are!).

>
> Obviously, the # of figures affected should be a consequence of
> quality level - limit it to quality level # figs - 10 for a vet, 8
for
> a regular. If you activate subordiante sergeants and stuff, they too
> may attempt to activate their subordinates in cascade.
>

Seems a little high, Needs to be some combo of experience and quality
BUT
the downside is that anyone who keeps guys that close together so they
can
all be controlled also subjects them to all kinds of nasty things like
your MG auto fire and grenade bursts so there is a tradeoff.

** Well, stacking say 10 guys for a vet inside of his 5" command
radius means they are nicely placed for a grenade.

I see this also: The leader has his two actions. He wants his guys to
follow. He uses one action to  yell and one to move.  (Because he
needs at
time to lead by example) Or does his command action cost the rest of
his
turn.

** I'd say he can move. He yells "Squad, Advance with Me!" or
whatever, and goes hoping they all come.

 Can he move then pass on actions?

** Why not - he could move up to his squad and say "Squad, get over to
that woods line!".

 Do the recipients get one action
or two?

** They are activated. 2 actions, same as always.

 I suppose the simple way is they get two. Can a leader activate to
subordinate leaders, say fire team leaders, who then pass on their
activation's to the men (assuming the right checks are made) so you
have a
whole bunch going at once?

** If you like the complexity, yeah. Just like having a company
commander and platoon commanders in SG2.

** Do like we did for SG2 and limit each dude to one reactivation
though. No "hopping, skipping, shooting, dancing, super dudes".

> How about this: Use a radius from explosion point. Say for a typical
> grenade, 2". That means you have 0-2", 3-4", 5-6", 7-8", 9-10", etc.
>

<snip>

Regardless of "book" ratings or what not it is very rare that a
grenade
will severely hurt you significantly at 25 meters.

** Rolled d4 attacks lately? Pretty low odds. ;)

 It''s a freak
occurrence particularly with any body armor.

** With what I'm suggesting, D4 vs D6 or D8 armour is mostly fairly
safe. ;)

 Sure there is a low
percentage that a fragment might get you (or poke out an eye). We've
been
pelted by grenade fragments at times.

** One of the things that the system doesn't address is that some
weapons act much worse against armour (Twilight 2000 had an armour
multiplier). Fragments are one of those. They'll chew up bare flesh,
but armour is more than effective against them.

  I remember seeing a guy (stupid
Lieutenant, but then again are there any other kind?)  hit in the face
at
about 20 meters and it was not much of a  big deal.

** Of course, we've all read about the guys at 50m killed by a
fragment.

 (In ARSOF the common
joke is "safety is a training distracter" though they always get  more
anal as we approach our quota of training casualties.)

** I'm curious, do you need tags? Or can anyone make a casualty? <g>

 The concussion is
scarier. Keep in mind none of this particularly negates Tom's stats
above.
It's reasonable to expect future grenades to get lighter and more
powerful.

BTW thrown hand grenades are more dangerous (burst wise) than rifle
grenades.

** So are mine. Great minds think alike (plus I thought they were
smaller - like 25-30mm whereas a hand grenade is bigger).

> Indoors, the results are less pretty. The explosion and fragments
are
> contained by the walls of a room (you hope). If you are in a room
> where more than half the grenades overall area can be deployed
> (eyeball it), then don't worry about the effects of enclosure -
there
> is space. If you are in a room (say a 3mx4m) where a grenade goes
off
> (less than half the radius can be employed), then you get
compounding
> effects. In this case, DOUBLE the attack dice used against the
target.
> If you'd normally have used 1d10, use 2d10. (or d10x2 if that suits
> you). Note if a grenade is setoff in a room with an open door,
people
> outside the doorway are fair game - doorways with no doors do not
stop
> fragments...

I say if a grenade goes off in a small room (and the room all fits
within
the first two range band, then just 2d12 the guy! It's that nasty.
(1d12
vs PA) But your way is just as well and consistent. Ditto on open
doors.

** It just figures out if a hallway is big enough - a long enough hall
will allow the explosion to expand down it as it isn't totally
restricted.

** Note that in woods, a grenade's effect should be more pronounced I
think (never thrown one in trees, but if it works like arty, the
flying splinters will mess you up). Double the attack dice, but double
the drop off (or just half the radius if you are lazy) in dense woods.

> So, following these suggestions:
> FMA Normal Frag Hand Grenade: 24/4 (2d12 0-2", 2d10 3-4", 2d8 5-6",
> 1d12 7-8", 1d8 9-10", 1d4 11-12")
> FMA Defensive Frag (designed to be thrown from a trench or fighting
> position):36/4
> (3d12 0-2", 3d10 3-4", 3d8 5-6", 2d12 7-8", 2d10 9-10", 2d8 11-12",
> 1d12 13-14", 1d8 15-16", 1d4 17-18")
> FMA Normal AP or HEDP Rifle Grenade: 20/4 (2d10 0-2", 2d8 3-4", 1d12
> 5-6", 1d8 7-8", 1d4 9-10")
> Controlled Effect CT Grenade: 20/8 (2d10 0-2", 1d12 3-4", 1d4 5-6")
> CT Stun Grenade: 24/8 (2d12 0-2", 2d8 3-4", 1d8 5-6", any wounded
> recover at +1 so 5 or 6 recovers, only a 1 kills)
> Flashbang: 32/16 (3d10 0-2", 2d8 3-4", can be defended against with
> full head protection (visor/ears), all wounds will recover,
automatic
> suppression if in blast radius plus any suppresion gained from
wounds)

Just make sure the flashbang does nothing but suppress,

** I know someone on the Canadian RCMP SERT team that lost hearing on
account of it due to it landing under the chair she was tied to during
training. I'd call that an injury. She was dazed and needed treated.
As I said, everyone recovers, but I don't think it just flash and
sound.... or maybe I'm thinking of a T-Flash? Hmmmm.

 but in non PA or
combat armor guys there's no recovery for one turn OR make suppression
removal a task check +2 or 3 something high.

** That's why you get the extra suppression. Two suppressions will
write you off for a turn.

 It's the few seconds of
suppression you want to capture but then again with a  leader
activating
successfully several guys, one guy pops the door and tosses in
grenade, it
goes off. The other guy also activated goes in and shoots all in one
smooth move.

BTW I make a guy spend one action prepping the Grenade (auto success)
He
can then hold onto it for any length of time (within reason) but god
forbid if he gets hit or (suppressed?),

** how about wounded, auto drop. Hit or suppressed, roll quality to
beat 2 if suppressed, 4 if hit but not wounded.

 then he drops it. Anyway, inside
he has to make a successful task check to get it through the door or
whatever small opening he's tossing it through unless he's right there
and
hooking/dropping it around a corner. Then we check for scatter. And
then
boom!

** Sounds right. I'm going to fight an outdoor skirmish with these and
my long arm rules (modified by your suggestions) early next week.
About a dozen OU and a sniper versus an ESU patrol of about 12-18.