Re: SG questions (DSII turn length)

Adrian Johnson posted:

>> Can GMS launchers be fired at dispersed targets?
>
>>From what I recall from the discussion a few months back, no.
>Except we like to allow it in our games. If you can aim a missile
>at a tank, you can aim it at the ground. . .

This question opens a big can of worms.  We had a debate on this list
sometime within the last month or so all about this topic.  If you look
back through old list postings (or digest archives - I forget the
website
for the archives - maybe somebody else can post it please??), you'll
see.

Basically, one side of the argument is that NO you can't, because the
warhead is designed for anti armour and you would have to be REALLY
lucky
to actually hit a single trooper in a dispersed infantry formation.  A
near
miss would probably not do much damage, since the warhead is a shaped
charge.  The rules say that you fire a GMS using the guidance vs. the
target's ECM, but infantry doesn't have an ECM rating.

The other side of the argument is that if an IAVR (anti armour shaped
charge warhead, but unguided) can be used against infantry, why can't a
GMS? The GMS is going to cause *some* kind of damage if it hits close to
a
trooper, even if just by shrapnel.  Personally, I think that there
should
be *some* chance of a GMS doing damage to infantry - and our group plays
it
that way.  There is no "definitive" yes or no answer to this in the
rules,
though...

************
The archives are on "Starship Jockey - a Full Thrust Page" I'm not sure
of
the http: but you can get there from the geo hex page.

The only "historical" mention was of GMS fire being used against
emplaced
troops. My feeling is that GMS vs. emplacements treats troops as
casualties
as normal, with the ECM die being against whatever ECM is on the
emplacement
(electronic camuofalge, IR dispersing archetecture, ect...) With the
images
we have seen on TV from Kosovo, I'd say that the bunker, as a bunker,
would
probably still be standing and could be used by another infanrtry team.
Dire
ct fire weapons could probably knock it over easier though.

GMS Fired against dispersed targets depends on what their signature is.
Humans have this nasty tendency to blend in to the background in a
firefight, especially on IR, and humans don't have much of a radar
signature
to begin with. Certain armors however can increase a human's signature.
for
game purpouses I say that Basic Battledress (camo fatigues: armor D4)
has an
ECM die of D12, Partial Light armor (armor D6) has an ECM die of D10,
...and
so on to heavy power armor (armor D12) has an ECM die of D4.

Power armor 'might' be equipped with actual countermeasure equipment,
this
would have to be written into the scenario, as it would probably be
issued
to special forces on advanced recon missions.

As to casualties, roll for ONE random target. the previous discussion
had
that the blast radius for a ground effect with a shaped charge was about
2
yards. 1 inch in SGII is 10 meters. It would be impossible to target any
single infantryman as the buggers keep moving behind and in front of
each
other changing the lock from target to target.

As to IAVRs vs. GMS. the modern IAVR (M72-LAW)	is something of an "OH
S**T!" weapon. every trooper is equipped with one in the event of
encountering a tank. they are probably less shaped than charge, in case
it
needs to be used against a dispersed formation (my PSB, I admit, but
reasonable for sci-fi weapons development). Specific tank busting
weapons
will be issued to troopers that are planned to attack armor formations,
these will have tighter shaped charges specificaly for penetrating armor
(PSB: necessary for advanced armor materials).

******************
>
>>     If so do you treat it like a support weapon except that it has to
be
>>     fired separately?
>
>Seeing that it isn't covered in the rules, this makes sense. d8
>for impact, as per the rules on p.40

And use 12" rangebands, or something like that.  Normally the size of
your
rangebands are determined by the unit quality, but with a GMS, we
thought
you should have *some* benefit from the enhanced guidance and sighting
systems, but at the same time shouldn't have the "across the table" sort
of
unlimited range they normally do.   So use 12" rangebands, and the
defender
uses range/cover modifiers as normal.

For firepower, use the guidance die type, and the unit quality die as
normal.

That's how we do it, and it works well.
****************
I use the armor signature I described above, but you pay your money you
make
your choice...

****************
>> Are there any limitations placed an an EW trooper, like on movement
or
>>     fire combat?
>
>Not that I'm aware of. My EW warfare guy is in my command squad,
>usually, so I try to keep them  away from really heavy fire.

No restrictions stated in the rules.
******************
the length of one turn is stated at 5 minutes. I'm not sure I agree with
that but see my notes on a previous thread below

(previous topic: Sensor Range Question) As to the DSII 15 minute turn
length... a civ. wheeled vehicle on a highway (easy movement) moves 20
inches or 2 KM. A real vehicle at 60 MPH* or 97KM/H  it takes 1.2
minutes to
cross that space (1.2371.....ect.) if each side has up to a battalion,
and
each unit moves while all others are stopped it could take 15 min.
    Of course if I'm driving anything on top of a raised highway that
streches the entire tabletop (a fun piece of scenery to model, so why
not
use it?), and I'm not prepared to fire back (because I'm in "travel
mode"),
I'm mot liable to stop twice for 13.8 minutes each stop (it takes 3
turns to
cross a 60" table, 2 for fast GEV and Grav) while as many as six or
seven
tank platoons get to, not just take pot shots at me, but purpousely
manuver
to intercept, and fire on me. Also a tank platoon is not going to stop
twice
for 13.8  minutes each stop while I go charging past them, to get to
better
cover.
    The idea of divisions not moving until another division (battle
group
ect.. the kind of level that you see in most historical documentaries
like
the PBS Battlefield WWII series**) is sort of valid, divisions will hold
position untill previous divisions complete their missions, and
confirmation
reaches command levels, then the order goes out for the next
division...a
signifigant delay even with satelite comm technology (confermation of
objective taking the longest). But DSII is under the battle level. DSII
is
more represenative of the firefight level, where no one is stopping for
anything, and movement is life.

*At 60 MPH normal movement for a wheeled vehicle is 30 MPH, poor
movement
(over "flat" fields) is about 15 MPH. I live on the high plains of
colorado.
While putting up a fence for my family's ranch I used my light truck for
moving fence posts around the property. If I stayed on the well traveled
path I could get 30 MPH on a good day, but off the path I had to keep it
at
around 15 or risk breaking my axles, runing into cactii and puncturing
my
tires, ect. (yes a cactus can puncture modern vulcanized rubber tires.)
Besides if you wanted to say a wheeled vehicle moving "easy" moved at
75MPH
the turn length would be reduced even more.

** a good series I highly recommend it. Now there is a Battlefield
Vietnam
series. In Colorado, USA it is on channel 6 at 9:00 pm on Thursday. I
missed
all but the very begining of the first episode, it looks like the same
format as the WWII series.
******************

>
>> The SG book differes with the Quick Reference card on what to do with
>>     a dummy counter on a Minor success for a Observation roll, which
one
>>     is correct?
>
>I don't know, because I only have my rulebook at work. . .

I would tend to say "default to the rulebook" for stuff like this.
**********************************
use the rulebook text, not the quick refrence box in the rulebook. A
dummy
counter should remain in place as it could be a sniper or a mine
counter, If
the scenario allows none of the above then remove it, as it couldn't be
one
of those anyways.
**********************************

These are questions that would be well suited to an "official" FAQ. 
Maybe
if we bug Jon T enough we can set an "offical" FAQ up on somebody's
website
- - the GZG on-line catalogue site, maybe???

Hope this helps.

Adrian
***********************************
Okay I've added my $.02 + intrest and government intervention (taxes)