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Re: Infantry Walkers!

From: Brian Burger <burger00@c...>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:30:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Infantry Walkers!

On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:

> Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty: 
> > DS2, actually. In DS2, Armour 6-7+ isn't that hard to penetrate -
get big
> > MDCs in close, or big DFFGs in even closer. In SG2, it'd be a
> Read DS2, never played yet. Get the impression the balance is 
> different than SG2.... so necessitates different thinking for same 
> systems.

It does. Difference in scale, granularity, etc. For instance, DFFGs in
smoke anything on the table. In DS2, they have massive range problems -
only between 30-50% range of most other weapons in the same size class.
They're still very powerful, but when your opponent can kill you before
you can even hit
him, that bites. Infantry are the main difference, of course. All the
SAW/Infantry Plasma type weapons are run together, as either regular
ranged fire from rifle teams or APSWs (anti-personnel support weapons). 

>  Am using some of differences in DS2 ranges and chits to 
> justify choosing one weapon over another while SG2 makes them near 
> the same. 

Makes sense. There are vehicle designs that make sense in DS2 that are
strange in sg2, and vice versa. The DFFG example above is the best one.
The other is that in DS2, the MDC is the best weapon going, in most
circumstances. They have no real advantages in SG2 over HKPs, while in
DS2 there's a noticable range difference, although the two weapons share
damage profiles.
>I guess the smaller 0.5 size get
> - ECM (good)	for self protection
> - Decoys, smoke dischargers 
> - D12 or D6x2 armour probably
> - 2 or 3 spaces of gear
> - easier use of smaller stuff to get cover bonuses. Plus I'd probably 
> let them go IP. 
> I'm going to write this up sometime soon. 

Sounds good. for direct fire, they'd be targetted as Size 1 vehicles,
> As an aside, since you do both DS and SG.... question for you:
> 1. APFCs in DS2 are treated as CDM roughly in SG2. 

We haven't added DS2's Anti-Personel Fragmentation Charges to SG2 yet.
There was a proposal from one of my gaming group to treat them as Light
Artillery (mortar) rounds going off anywhere within (iirc) 4" of the
vehicle, but we never implemented or playtested it.

My use of CMDs is also limited, but reading the book suggests that
a good place to start for representing APFCs in SG2. (for that matter, I
can't think of any APFC use in DS2. We've got them on vehicles, but the
vehicles with APFC never get close assaulted, and the vehicles with it
get close assaulted...go figure)

> 2. How do you do stealth? I've been experimenting with it - I have 
> tried the following: stealth = ECM shifts (open shift). Versus direct 
> fire, I'm wafling on using stealth. In DS2, it seems to impact 
> signature and therefore does (IIRC) affect DF weapons. Maybe this is 
> chameleon effect stuff that makes vehicles harder to target. What do 
> you think?

In DS2, stealth does affect direct fire weaponry - but not GMS fire,
uses ECM, while ECM has no affect on DF wpns. I figure it's electronic
emmisions damping, IR & other shielding, chameleon paint, etc etc. Using
stealth in SG2 would be fairly easy: instead of using the vehicles
size when firing at it, use the stealthed size to determine range bands
range dice. EG if firing at a Walker with a normal Signature of 2 (a
1 Walker, in other words) which is running Stealth 1, treat it as only a
Size 1 target. Simpler example: A Size 5 MBT with Stealth 1 becomes a
4 target, for all direct-fire weapons.
> Have you got the GMS/P rules someone wrote for DS2? They should be in 
> the list archive. With those, and IAVRs, you've got some anti-armour 
> capability. Back that up with ortillery (which you don't want close 
> to you in case it misses) and you are laughing.    

I missed the GMS/P rules. I'll take a look for them, tho. IAVRs are
but have very limited range (only 4" on the DS2 table). OTOH, try
close-assaulting armour that's trying to withdraw thru a wooded area,
where PA move faster than armour...dead tanks...
the wandering habits of ortillery bring to mind Murphy's first Law
of Combat: There is no such thing as friendly fire. (if you haven't seen
Murphy's Laws of Combat yet, get thee to the web and get a copy...very

> > Actually, I'm on the Far West Coast, Victoria, BC to be exact.
> > some deep shelters around here, with the naval base...forgot about
> > Smite button...I'm for it now...
> Sorry, got confused. Thought of Mr. Goodall for a moment.... (brain 
> clunks into correct gear now...). Comox ought to have some bunker to 
> run and hide in, and I'm sure MAREUPAC has someplace to stick your 
> head that you'd be safe. Grab some tanks and jump in the ocean. Their 
> orbital sensors will have a hard time picking you out, even though 
> Aussie Deathsats have a fierce reputation.... (I think the Thor 
> Javelin was actually a copy of a real Aussie weapon....). 

Originally invented for dingo hunting and 'roo culling, I'm sure. (I'm
also sure that now I'll _have_ to find that bunker...) <g>
(some other listmember wrote last week 'give me stereotypes or
give me death'. Fine, but not both, right?)

> > (OTOH, if I'd told them I'm in Toronto, maybe they'd get rid of the
> > for us?)
> WOOOOPEEEE. But only after we got Ken, Adrian, Allan and the few 
> other worthwhile folk (well, I guess there are a lot of them) to flee 
> from that Urban Nightmare. (Turn the Big Smoke into the Big 
> Smoked....)

Hear Hear! Even the people I know who live there wouldn't miss the place
much...(for the non-Canadians on the list, pardon us. But as I said
> > (Loathing Toronto being Canada's second national sport...not
> > just the city...)
> > (this is getting silly..correction, sillier)
> But bits of the message are OT. 

Does OT mean Off Topic or On Topic? I'd always thought it was OFF TOPIC
(that's how I've used it in the past)... (is this part of the message OT
or not???)

> > 
> > > Tom with Tongue Planted So Far In Cheek It's Breaking Through
> > 
> > don't hurt yourself...
> That would be if I had tongue planted in someone else's.....stop 
> it.... no don't go there.... <CLICK><NO CARRIER> 

Please don't go there....please...thank you.

If you had a forked tongue you could plant it in _both_ the
same time.

Brian (
-- --DS2/SG2/games

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