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RE: 25mm Grav Bikes and Rules (Longish)

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:48:19 -0500
Subject: RE: 25mm Grav Bikes and Rules (Longish)

Brian spake thusly upon matters weighty: 

> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:
> > Why would this not be the case with other vehicles? If I 
> > detect rounds hitting my Grizzly APC, I'd sure as heck move. But SG2

> > rules say that if a vehicle does not unsuppress it DOES NOT MOVE and

> > DOES NOT ACT. This represents hunkering down. 
> Actually, check pg 18 of the SG2 rulebook: "Suppression of vehicles
> buildings does NOT inhibit them from moving, firing and most other
> actions, but it does prevent their crew or occupants from doing
> that involves leaving the protection of the vehicle or structure..."

I wondered about that. I stand aghast. Many pardons. Mea Culpa. And 
to those whom I afflicted this upon recently, a thousand pardons. 

For the record, such suppression SHOULD probably effect (especially 
in the days of more manual fire control but even today when wincing 
or flinching when your turret gongs as a HKP bounces off of it can 
make your aim crappy) vehicle firing. Moving should be okay.  

> > If I was on a grav bike 
> > getting fired at, I may move, or I may do an emergency grounding and

> > get behind my bike....
> >
> Given the above rules for regular vehicles, how do we then treat
> troops? How about the following: After the _first_ suppression chit,
> mounted units may move but not fire - they're more interested in
> cover. If a second or third suppression chit is added, units may
> move nor fire until suppression is cleared, as per normal infantry -
> this point, the mounted troopers bail off their bikes and hunker down.

I like it. Simple. Good solution. 
> > Perhaps (in general) an alternate vehicle suppression rule could be 
> > used. There is an implication in the existing rules that suppression

> > will never affect vehicle fire...
> This is actually exactly what the book says...

I know (now) but I'm not sure I agree. 
> > but the truth is that the vehicle 
> > may well have its outgoing fire affected. Also, the vehicle crew may

> > involuntarily (as far as the unit commander is concerned) withdraw. 
> > or they may hunker down and seek cover. This range of response is
> > really covered under current vehicle suppression rules. 
> > 
> It seems a bit harsh for regular vehicles, but you could apply the
> suppression equals movement only' idea for them as well, or 'first
> suppression allows only movement or rally/de-suppression actions'.
> My $0.02,

A good two cents. Especially pointing out I'm a moron who can't 
remember stuff I read... (sigh). 

How about

MV = Move
MVE = Move, but only as encumbered (if encumbered, may not move)
NOMV = No Move
F = Fire
F(-n) = Fire, n die shifts off troop quality
C = Communicate/Transfer Actions/Call Arty
R = Rally/Remove Supp
D = Deploy Troops
BT(n) = Involuntary BreakAway (Evade) test at TL n
B = Automatic Breakaway

	      Infantry	      Vehicle	       Air (an idea)
Unsuppr       MV,F,C,R	      MV,F,C,R,D       Normal
1st Suppr     MVE,R,C	      MV,F(1),R,C      MV,F(1),R,C,BT(2)    
2nd Suppr	  NOMV,R,C	  MVE,F(2),R,C	   MV,F(2),R,C,BT(3)
3rd Suppr     NOMV,R	      NOMV,F(3),R,C    B

The air stuff I might try since I have rules for infantry AA fire 
(with help from Phil P. - I haven't published till I send them to 
Phil to look over). 

This means in the early stages, you might try to move to get out of 
target zone, and you might call for arty. As you get more suppressed, 
you get less and less concerned about that (as a ground unit) and 
more and more concerned with digging into the dirt. Even armoured 
vehicles that are multiply suppressed have a hard time shooting as 
the crew is shook up by the rounds that are 'almost!' hitting them. 
Air units keep moving as their best anti flak technique is speed. At 
a certain point, flak is too thick then they bail. 

Just a thought. 
Thomas Barclay		     
Voice: (613) 831-2018 x 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255

 "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes
 it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
 -Bjarne Stroustrup

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