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Re: [DS] Tank designs was Re: [ds] Ogres

From: "Richard Slattery" <richard@m...>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:31:11 -0000
Subject: Re: [DS] Tank designs was Re: [ds] Ogres

On 17 Nov 98, at 0:47, John M. Atkinson wrote:

> Kenneth Winland wrote:
> > > Uhh. . . yeah, it's a brilliant idea.
> > 
> >	    The best direct fire weapon on he best armoured tank?
> OK, let's compare resource investment.  If you can kill a JS-II with
> 88mm gun, then why do you need anything bigger?  How many JS-IIs can
> USSR build for cost of one Maus.  Ever hear of diminishing returns? 
> Maus went past that line.  Long way past that line.  Of course, IMHO,
> building more Panthers would have been best way to use all the
> that went into Tigers, King Tigers, Mauses, other "Supertanks", et al.

Although I basically agree with you here, an advantage of the gun 
was that it penetrated almost everything you would want to fire it 
at, at very long ranges... of course, actually scoring a hit is a bit 
tricky at 3500m

As to building more panthers, the germans were running low on 
crews, and becoming less and less able to mount mobile attacks 
against the overwhelming allied superiority. The battle of the bulge 
marking the last serious attempt. So in a fixed position where you 
are unable to keep falling back, the Jagd* tanks and heavies were 
probably the best option, or surrendering to the western allies.


> Yes, they were.  Or rather, Porche was an idiot, and Hitler a bigger
> one.	You have to cross bridges during COMBAT operations.  Remember
> Battle of Bulge?  Lead German Kampfgruppe was stopped because stupid
> commander left his bridging unit behind (Would have "slowed down"
> offensive) and the US Army's "Damned Engineers" dropped the bridges in
> front of him.  Ooops.  Now, let's imagine he had his bridging unit,
> a company of Mauses.	He's still stopped dead because it requires a
> bridge.  Ooops again.  Maus is fine idea if you assume there are
> railheads from your country to enemy capital, with an agreement not to
> destory or damage rails at all, and not to shoot at trains as they
> unload this Maus.  How long does it take to unload?  Of course, much
> cheaper and easier to drop 5 inch rocket off P-47, but that applies to
> all tanks.  Except that if I drop a 5 inch rocket on a force of Pz
> there are some left.	I drop on Maus, and the only one you got is
> Mass production is good thing.

<chuckle> I think the advance would also have been a little bit 
slowed by the Maus's enormous 13km/h top speed ;)
Which lead kampfgruppe btw? The Southerly one (with 2nd Panzer) 
made almost all of it's objectives, but the northerly one with the SS 
got less than halfway IIRC.
Richard Slattery
Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. 
     Aldous Huxley

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