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RE: [SG2] Mission Cards for SG/DS

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:44:14 -0500
Subject: RE: [SG2] Mission Cards for SG/DS

Glover, spake thusly upon matters weighty: 

>		OK,
>		I'm guessing that what we are trying to acheive is not
> exactly a set of scenarios but a separate set of cards for the
> and the "Defender".

Why? See my comments below. 

>		So here's some likley card ideas. A points system will
> required for this if players aren't familiar with each others forces.

In any case, wouldn't hurt for victory conditions. See my comments 

> Attacker Defender ratios should be around 4:3 (or for the brave
> 3:2)

Of course, if Defender well emplaced with CDMs, arty, etc, then 3:1 
or more might not be outrageous. 

. All games are assumed to be played on a 6'x4' table and games last 
12 turns or 2 1/2 hours.

Let scenario determine game length and let actual table size 
determine table size. 

 The mission outlines for ATK and DEF are 
suitable for both DS and SG. The points forces will be different.

Although DS2 values aren't too bad, except that one should probably 
about double the value of infantry. If one does that , the SG2 
vehicle/infantry balance might be close to right.  Or maybe more than 

>		I'm still working on points and victory conditions for
> sides.

Another view: 

I've come up with 26 mission cards. Each of which lists a mission 
that one player must perform (example Casevac). It lists 1-3 options 
for the objectives of that player. In order to avoid having the same 
scenario objectives each time, but maintain compatible objectives for 
a battle, I've included the opponents objectives (a list of 1-5 
options depending on mission). That way each card will really 
represent from 3 to 10 sets of objectives-pairs that should be 
compatible. And with 26 cards, that represents over 200 possible 

Each would have a range of possible natures for an objective too. So 
the Patrol Card might have on it
Player A: Objectives: 1. Recon Enemy 
				2. Enage and Destroy Enemy
Player B: Objectives: 1. Pass Through AO
				2. Patrol Area (Recon)
				3. Patrol Area (Engage and Destroy)
				4. Special Operation (drop off, pickup,
ELINT, sabotage, etc)
Terrain Options: (roll 1d10) 
	1. Military Installation
	2. Civilian Installation
	3. Transportation Artery
	4. Geographic Feature	
	5. Population Centre
	6. Special Objective (for Special Operation)
	7+Normal Terrain

Now, each set of objectives would come with a Force Factor. (This is 
the points system Owen was talking about). Like Owen, I still haven't 
got it figured yet, but it would give a relative idea. For example, 
lets say we drew the card above, Player A's objective was Patrol 
(Recon Enemy) and Player B's was Pass Through the Area. It will 
likely be a meeting encounter. Let's say for terrain we roll a 5, 
Population Centre (on the PC table, we generate a village). So the 
centre of our board, however big, is made up of a 2x2 village. The 
other 1x1 sections are laid down randomly from our Terrain Deck for 
Temperate Lands (a mix of fields, scrub, light woods, heavy woods, 
swamps, etc). Because player A is a recon force, his force factor was 
(lets say) a 5. Because player B is a force advancing from one board 
edge to the other, he could be just about any size - say a range of 
5-10. Note that it is possible in some cases for BOTH players to 
satisfy victory conditions! But if A had Recon (Search and Destroy), 
where he might have a Force Factor of 8 (maybe each pip corresponds 
to a four man squad or a small vehicle?), when he encountered B he'd 
engage and B would be trying to get across the board. And all that 
from one card. WIth variance of missions, and geography, one card can 
produce lots of scenarios and you don't have to worry about 
incompatible objectives (both forces trying to retreat). Further, 
game length could be buit into objectives. The transit objective 
might say 6 turns to cross the board. The Recon objective might say 
12. So if player B isn't done his transit by turn 6, he loses. If A 
isn't done his area recon by 12, he loses. Here, both players can 
lose too!. 

>		D7  RELIEF - Place 1/3 points value of forces in 12"
> at table centre. May not withdraw until start of Turn 6, may not use
> artillery or air support but may include mines and 1d6 dummy markers
> anywhere on board. Remainder come on table at start of Turn 5.

You had some good ideas, which I've absconded with for my cards. Your 
solution is workable I believe, if a tad simpler than mine. I'm going 
to proceed with mine I think, and I'll post the results and we can 
all see what we think. I think I'd be interested to see your points 
system, Owen. 

Here was some points I took a cut at. 
Vehicle: DS2 rating
Infantry man: 
	Untrained 1
	Green 3
	Regular 5
	Veteran 7
	Elite 9
SAW +2 or 3
PPG +5
GMS/P +7 to 10
GMS/P-Air +10 to 15
HMG/Rotary MG/Gauss MG +10 to +15

This number was multiplied by 1 +/- a factor based on
fatigue, motivation, and armour
Armour: 	Poor  - .1 (None)  D4
		Good  0   D6 or better
		PA +.1 to .2
		Tired -.1
		Fresh 0
		High +.1
		Low -.1

So.... for example a unit of 5 Regulars with rifles, and 1 with a SAW 
would be (5x5 for the rifles)+(1x5+2 for the saw gunner). That total 
of 32 would then be multiplied by a factor. Let's say they had 
partial armour, were fresh, and were regular motivation (1+0+0+0). 
That squad would be worth 32. In contrast, a squad of Elite PA (four 
members, 3 with IPW, one with PG) with high motivation and heavy 
armour who were also fresh would be worth ((3x9) + (1x9+5)) * 
(1+.2+0+.1) = 41 * 1.3 = 53 points. These numbers seem to reflect 
the balance. A squad of green riflemen (6 men with rifles, poor 
armour, low motivation, who have no armour and are fresh  - militia 
for example) would be worth (6x3) * (1-.1+0-.1) = 18 x 0.8 = 15 

This was my first cut at it. It may be the balance vis a vis vehicles 
is not right and that one may have to multiply these first-guess 
values by 2. SG2 is meant to be an infantry game, and a costing 
structure which rates vehicles so expensively will certainly help to 
deter their presence somewhat. 

<apologies for incredible length>

Thomas Barclay		     
Voice: (613) 831-2018 x 4009
Fax: (613) 831-8255

 "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes
 it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
 -Bjarne Stroustrup

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