Re: (SG2] Orbital Insertion (an alternative approach to calculat

Thomas Barclay wrote:

>  Also, those of you who are or have been para troopers - how much
> > would a troop disperse using today's parachutes?
>
> Is that relevant? Using a square rigged chute/airfoil, how much
> closer to your target can you get today than in say 1945? Let's track
> that 200 years forwards.
>

Well square rig chutes are inherently more manueveralble than their
round cousins. But there is a reason why most conutntries still us ethe
MC1d1 or T10. encountering an entaglement on a square rigger is much
more dangerous than a round chute. And since you are looking to drop
mass troops by chute you are not looking for the troops to be able to
steer that much in the air you want the initial spot to be on the money
so they don't haveto steer. Entanglements are too dangerous. Of course
things could chang in the future but you still have an ingherently more
dangerous design in the square rig for mass drops.

> Using Drop caps? Why? Seems to me with either an airfoil with grav
> assist (grav chute) or with a drop cap with fins, rocket motors, etc.
> that you could probably arrive far more accurately than anything
> today. It seems to me we can put a man on the moon where we want him,
> and we can land the space shuttle remotely (the Russians could). I
> don't see why you can't put down 8 guys within 100m area. (Given
> normal conditions).
>

I have some doubts as to the accuracy of orbital drop vs atmospheric
drop given the speed, compactness of formation required,  and time in
the air exposure these guys have to work under Especially given mass
drop on the company/bn level) but I'll shelve those for a moment and go
under Tom's scenario:

Has anyone seen the intro to Quake2? It's pretty good and I think the
way they do their orbital drop is the best. The whole side of the drop
ship is launch tubes. All are spit out at once. (Remember, how high up
the ship is even if it travels 300 meters at 50 miles up that could
translate to   kilometers of dispersion on the ground.) Anyway, each guy
is in a coffin sized drop capsule with stubby wings. All the capsule of
a given unit are ejected at once and down they go together. The capsules
ahve stubby wings and hopefully anticollision control. I imagibne this
is similar to what Tom's talking about. Once they land the thing pops
open and there's the guy!

I still think parachute assault is a viable alternative. Except that in
the future guys drop from very low height or from medium height by fast
movers but have a VERY low opening and stabalizing system. (Chute pops
at 150 meters or less). We have something similar in operation today
called LALO (Low Altitude Low opening) and limits exposure of the trops,
plus ensures that they	are all on target. Of course with with a drop
that low the system HAS to be very reliable becuas ethere is no reaction
time for malfunctions. In that case it would be LANO (Low altitude No
Opening).

We're gonna see both the Tom orbital drop method and the LALO method in
upcoming Rot hafen chapters. So these discussions are very useful to me.

> > That's easy to explain: "The heavier they are, the harder they fall"
> <g>
>
> Heh.
>
> > An armour suit which prevents you from being blown to bits or having
>
> > nasty holes punched through you isn't necessarily going to save you
> from
> > concussion damage (or having your balls flattened) when you hit the
> > ground too fast.
>
> I'm not sure I'd agree. The Police have found that bulletproof vests
> make a big difference in car crashes because the blunt trauma is
> dispersed. This still applies in powered armour. Something designed
> to help you survive both point hits an explosive concussions (and
> something which can stand the stresses of an assault drop in the
> first place) probably can help you out with an impact on the ground.

Well I think the suit would work as long as it could absorb the shock.
The body armor helping when you fall helps but really it helps becuase
if you get jabbed by something when you fall it absorbs that shock or
damage. If you can fall in your PA and it right's itself on hands and
knees like a cat and absorbs the fall, then that would be good. Fall on
your back off a two story building and you internal organs are going to
be damaged by teh sudden stop. In fact you know what kills a lot of
jumpers when they plunge in with a total malfunction?

Answer: A number of things.  But one that almost always happens in a
fatal plunge is that the heart (and other organs) is ripped right off
it's "moorings" (Hey I ain't a doc but I have been the company safety
officer). This tears the a aorta right from the heart (or actually visa
versa). Even if the guys doesn't smash his head in and	break all his
bones, this internal damage in unavoidable. So I guess it depends on how
far you fall in your PA.