RE:[MISC] [OT] Bring and Battle

>>On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Mikko Kurki-Suonio wrote:

>>"Once you have experience" is the operative word here. How many games
does
>>it take to learn a system inside out? *Without* a more experienced
>>teacher? Let's say I play a game of SG once every three months
(typical
>>for a "sideline" game in my group). Let's say it takes 10 games to
learn
>>the system.

>Playing a game once every three months isn't giving it a fair go.  When
I
>buy a new game system I commit myself to learning it and playing a
number
>of games, up to one every weekend, over the next couple of months.

Must be nice - you apparently have much more free time than some people,
as
do those you play with.

If I
>don't have the time to do this, the inclination, the opponents or any
>suitable models to practice with (I was using the micro machine
starwars
>figures to play stargrunt with for three months before I even bought my
>first 25mm SciFi miniature) then I don't buy the rules till I can or am
>inclined to do this.

Unfortunately, this is NOT a realistic alternative for many.  Often I
only
get to play any kind of game about once every few months - and my main
opponent has about the same amount of time.

<SNIP>

>>I don't have the luxury of a referee (unless it's me). I get to buy
all
>>the rules, learn them, teach them, buy all the minis and paint them --
or
>>there's no game (unless I go play GW).

>Hmmmmm.  Read my first paragraph and then contact some other like
minded
>people through the retail store where you bought the rules from.  Just
>cause your current gaming group doesn't play a system doesn't mean
their
>aren't other people around who do.

But unfortunately it sometimes DOES mean exactly that.	Look, I live in
Anchorage Alaska. There is basically ONE game store in southcentral
Alaska,
with 3 locations.  (For reference - thats an area almost the size of
TEXAS!)  When I went in and ordered FT, MT, DSII, SGII, and finally FTFB
-
each time I was told by the games guy that he had never heard of these
products!  Absolutely no chance in hell that anyone else in the area has
bought them from the store.  And Peter has been the games guy there
since
before FTII was published!  So unless people have been buying direct
from
geohex or GZG, there's almost no chance of experienced players.  I am
the
local FT expert - and I have played ONCE!  that kind of sucks.	the fact
that my wife has a less than stellar view of most gamers doesn't help
much
either.  But I see her point. The games scene here basically consists of
GW
and Magic - and most (not all) of the people who congregate around them
I
would not invite into my home...

>>And I absolutely hate cardboard counters...

>I'm going to make a judgement call now and if I'm wrong I apologise to
you
>before hand, but it sounds like you have been sucked in by the GW
marketing
>people who's only goal in life is to sell their miniatures and as a
result
>have corrupted a whole generation of potential wargamers into thinking
that
>the only way to play is with officially sanctioned miniatures.  I
suggest
>that you might try playing some boardgames like King Maker, The African
>Campaign, and other counter based games where the enjoyment comes from
>beating your opponent and not from having the most up to date miniature
>release.

The GW comment is rather low (not directed towards me but it sort of
applies)

Let me add my comment on counters - For a game like King Maker they are
fine.  I like King Maker. I also like the visual appeal of miniatures
(though I can't paint to save my life).  For a miniature game I can't
stand
futzing with counters on the table - probably my biggest problem with
DSII
or SGII.  Don't like the look, don't like re-locating counters each time
I
move miniatures. No big deal- just a matter of preferences.

>Wayne.
>
>P.S. no offense intended and original message edited for length
reasons.

Same applies to my reply
Jared