Re: GZG DS2 Mikko: Genres for DS2.

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Andrew Martin wrote:

>     How about DFFG + HEL cost * 2? It's up to us, and the group to
find an
> acceptable points value. Just moaning about it won't help. After all,
I
> don't know of a game system that will let you play Hammer's Slammers
(HS)
> except for an Arab-Israeli war game!

How about the *real* Hammer's Slammers game from Mayfair? Ok, it's out
of
print.
 
Dave Ferris' Generic Legions can do it, and probably quite a number of
other generic systems.

>     HS doesn't need PDS. HS GEV tanks automatically, with no cost in
> actions, shoot down missiles. 

Erm, I couldn't see this bit in the article.

> This is because the opponent's missiles aren't
> DSII fire and forget, self homing, high speed missiles.

And this is simply not true... more on this later.
 
> >And in a "brind-n-battle" environment, it needs a point value.
>     Do you mean "Bring 'n' Battle"? Then you aren't playing Hammer's
> Slammers! You're playing with no limitations and no genre.

I want to play a "Slammers-inspired" force in a bring'n'battle. Is that
really too much to ask?

> first used in war. Hammer's Slammers era missiles are operator
controlled,
> wire guided, joystick control devices, where the operator guides the
missile
> to the target by seeing where the missile was and guiding it to its
target.
...
> Hammer's
> Slammers don't have DSII era fire and forget, self homing, high speed
> missiles.
...
>     HS combat cars were open topped because they were based on a old
Soviet
> apc wich was open topped. I get the impression David Drake didn't like
> M113s!
...
>     HS also isn't NBC capable. Their rules of war didn't allow NBC
weapons
> to be used.

Excuse me, but have you actually *read* any of the stories? How about
the
"interludes" that explain the world and technology?

>     But does system Y have all the good points of system X?

It just has to be good enough to be enjoyable.
DSII is not the end-all, be-all scifi microarmor game. (sacrilige!
horror! shock! blasphemy!)
If it doesn't cover what I want to play, I just won't play it.
 
>     The game is what you make of it. When playing in a genre, use the
genre
> limitations and accept them. When not playing in a genre, don't use
the
> genre limitations.
>     If you need reasons for the genre limitations, research the genre
and
> find them out. 

A blanket ban is not a very satisfactory solution. Background reasons
need
game reasons to back them up.

Let's consider the Slammers & missiles dilemma:

In the Slammers universe, fire&forget AT missiles (and combat aircraft) 
are not used because supertank firecon can shoot them down almost
ridiculously easily. 

But not everyone has the ultra-high tech of the Slammers force. In fact,
almost all of the forces the Slammers face use substantially lower
technology. Why don't such forces use guided missiles against each
other?
This is where Drake's logic breaks down... logically, ofcourse, they
would. (And logically, Slammers should use ATGMs against them)	But then
you can't get away with the blanket assumption that no one has GMS --
you
need *rules* for the superb Slammers defenses, and an associated point
cost that will balance them with the indigs.

Let's give supertanks superior PDS. Is it good enough? (I don't think
so) 
Does it even fit in the tank? And just how does it help with the "shoot
down aircraft" bit? 

> Don't moan about it! It doesn't help! It only hinders.

To offer you another analogy, what would you say if you bought a house
and got a pile of bricks and a sack of cement with a brochure reading:

"The new CementSlab 2000 housing system is completely customizable.
Therefore, no customer complaints about design will be accepted."?

-- 
maxxon@swob.dna.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio) 	   | A pig who doesn't
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