Re: Space tactics

On Mon, 17 Aug 1998, Oerjan Ohlson wrote:

> The obscene speed issue is a realistic problem as well <shrug> That's
why
> I assume planetary sensors to have a vastly longer range than
shipboard
> sensors - to allow a defending force to build up an intercept vector
> before the enemy hits the planet.

(Speaking of realism, I'm assuming vector movement here).

Have you actually done any math on this interception thing, or are you
just assuming? E.g.

I jump in somewhere. If there are no fixed jump points (or too many of
them), this could be pretty much anywhere and the likelihood of you
having
ships in the immediate vicinity is neglible.

I take an intercept vector against your base/planet/whatever. That
could be pre-calculated since planets and the like move *very*
predictably.

I step on the gas pedal. If my strike fleet has thrust 8, your best
chance
to catch me for a multi-turn engagement is if you start chasing right
about where I started my run -- which is a pretty remote chance at best.
Specifically, any ships you have at the target site are next to useless.
Picket ships along the system rim might have a chance if they're close
enough.

Your odds improve, ofcourse, if I'm braindead enough to bring slower
ships into the strike team -- though I can't really see why I'd do that.

Let's do some calc.

Assume we get a "good" battle if you can get within 50" of me with 
velocity within 20" of mine.

Assume you have a picket ship X" to the side of my fleet, at standstill.
You must allocate part of your thrust to try to match my vector, part
to actually get where I am. Ok, assume you allocate 7" to match
and 1" to getting where I am.

In essence, you'll have to close the gap of X" to within 50" before
our velocity difference gets too big, or 20 turns in this case.

s = 50 + 0.5*1*20^2

or 250" (and this leaves you with considerable now detrimental
"sideways" 
vector). 

What's an inch? 15000km? Neptune's orbit is out at about 30 AU.
The lenght of the orbit is about 188AU or about 28071 MILLION km.
Placing one ship every 250", you'd need about 7485 ships for the
picket line. Ha ha haa. If you can afford 7485 ships for a picket
line, I can probably afford something similar for the strike team.
How would you like 3000:1 odds for your defensive battle?

No wait. It gets better. Space, unlike FT, is 3-d. Do you really want 
to know how many ships you'd need for the picket globe?

Now consider that I could choose to jump in a couple of 1000" further
away. The number of ships rises to astronomical proportions pretty
quickly with all the combinations. 

Yes, this is not a definitive study, but it sheds light on the magnitude
of the numbers involved. The ugly fact is that intercepting a
boom'n'zoom
attack is next to impossible unless you have a fairly good idea of the
attack vector beforehand (as you would if the system has, say, 2 jump
points). Even then, anything with thrust under 8 is of limited
usability.

Matching vector with something constantly accelerating is VERY hard. 
Consider the following:

I jump in 10000" away from target. You're directly on my approach
vector,
halfway out. Sounds like a good defensive position, doesn't it? I step
on
the gas pedal. Now tell me, how you're going to match my vector assuming
we have identical thrust ratings (i.e. 8)?

a) Fly towards me? Well, that'll get you one pass at 7500", but you'll
never catch me after that.

b) Stay put and try to get after me after I pass. Well, it's still one
pass at speed 280" or so. Good luck catching me.

c) Fly towards my target and fight as I overtake you? Let's see what
happens with different thrust setting you use: 

	Thrust 8: Sorry, you pass the target before I do.
	Thrust 7: ditto
	Thrust 6: ditto
	Thrust 5: ditto
	Thrust 4: 49 turns into the attack run, we're still 198" apart.
		We'll get a bloody mess right on top of the target
	Thrust 3: Pass at turn 44-45. However, your velocity is about
135"
		to my 360". Sayonara sucker.
	Thrust 2: Essentially ditto at turn 40-41
	Thurst 1: -"- at turn 39-40

(Note that this calc is *slightly* off wrt FT as I used the 
real formula for distance traveled).

Morale of the story: You have to be in the right place before you can
even
*think* about matching vector AND position, i.e. pretty damn close to
where the attack run is started. 

(Boom'n'Zooming the attackers is easier, but that way you only get one
attack pass yourself).

> No, it doesn't. The slow tubs in question is another good example of
> something which has to be defended (and which cannot easily escape) 

No it isn't, because even thrust 2 ships have a very good chance of 
escaping once they've built up a respectable, hard-to-match
vector. Let's try the above example with thr2 vs. 8:

Length of the attack run is a neat 100 turns.

I'll ignore the futile options. About your best bet is to fly out
as much as you can to get a pass at standstill, then turn around for
pursuit.

Turn 41 or so, pass at 8319". My velocity is 82" as you turn for
pursuit.
69 turns into the attack, you catch me. Our velocities of my 138" vs.
your
224" need a bit of matching, but you have 30 turns. You brake at max,
we pass again turn 85 or so. Now it's 170" to your 80". Blah, I have to
go, but as you can see, even with quadruple thrust it's not exactly
easy...

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