SV: One shot-kill weapons

Michael wrote:

[snip]

> Consider the following two ships classes:
> Wave Gun Cloaked Cruiser and Sub Space Bomber
> 
> Mass 26   WGCC
> Thrust 8
> damage 13
> sys
> Cloak
> Wave Gun
> 
> and:
> Mass 40  Sub Space Bomber
> Thrust 5
> Damage 20
> sys
> Cloak
> Nova Cannon

Again, the use of Cloaks depend entirely on what cloak house rules you
use.
If you use the MT cloaking rules (ie, determine beforehand how many
turns
you're going to be cloaked, then write your orders for those turns
without
having the model on-table) I'm not too sure I'd want to combine it with
WG/NC weapons. I'd rate the odds against your having someone directly in
front of you when you drop out of cloak as pretty high, except in
sizable
battles. And see below:
 
> A beam-equipped Cruiser would inflict 8-9 points at 12"
> if they bought no defense.  A WGCC would have the greatest
> advantage in the 24"-36" range because its weapon damage
> is only halved while the beam Cruisers are reduced by two
> thirds.

The problem here is that Waveguns (and Nova Cannon) can be difficult to
achieve hits with - thanks to their being straight-forward only. I know
I'm
a bit biased - since I measure in cm instead of inches the templates are
_very_ small, and it is an occasion to be remembered if a Wavegun shot
hits
more than one enemy ship. (I've seen close-range WG shots pass straight
through a dense - ie, base-to-base - formation without hitting
_anything_
:-( ) The beams on the opposing ship, however, have a much wider fire
arc
and are thus more likely to be able to fire back.

On a smaller board (ie, one where you can't very easily maneuver out of
the
way), or if there are many of them, Waveguns (and especially Nova
Cannon)
can be very effective - five templates side by side can cause a huge lot
of
damage! :-)

> Lets compare defenses:
> Versus Scatterpacks and Submunitions, all you can do
> is to try to keep out of their arc or their 12" range.

According to errata posted to this list (a long time ago, though) by
Mike
Elliott, the Kra'Vak Scatterguns are all-arc. SMPs are single-arc,
though.

> How easy this will be depends on several factors:
> 1)  The relative thrust of the ships involved
> 2)  Whether you are using standard FT (cinematic) or
> 'realistic' Vector Thrust rules.
> 3)  How fast the ships are going/ how much time they have
> to build up a vector before engaging.
> 
> Number three depends on such arbitrary things as the size
> of the table, the maximum speed allowed, and whether you
> have optional sensors rules that enable you to detect
> the enemy at strategic ranges, or at least greater than
> maximum weapons range.
> 
> Under standard Swoops in Space rules, the faster a ship
> is going the greater the potential area it can dodge to
> in a single turn.
> 
> Lets run down a couple examples for three systems:
> 1)  Standard FT rules
> 2)  Vector Thrust where one can spend 2 thrust for a
> 1 point facing change
> 3)  Vector Thrust where one can execute a facing change
> of up to 1/2 the ships' Thrust with no thrust penalty.
> 
> Consider a Thrust 2 Dreadnought moving at 30".
> There are 5 positions it can be in at the end of a turn:
> P1, S1, +0, +1 and +2.  The separation between P1 and 0
> is about 8" under (1).  

Um... no. There are eleven positions split between three areas where it
can
be: Straight ahead (+0, +1, +2, -1, -2), Left Turn (P1, P1+1, P1-1) and
Right Turn (S1, S1+1, S1-1). Within these groups, the distances between
the
different positions is pretty small - the biggest is 4 mu between the
Straight Ahead +2 and -2, unless my math failed me entirely; not enough
to
dodge a missile aimed at the correct general area.

> The dodge field consists of 3 hexes under (2)
> and a triangle of about 6 hexes under (3)

"Hexes"? 

> The difference in the positional variation at the end of
> the move makes a big difference in whether missiles and
> fighter groups can be in range to engage.

Yep.
 
> A Thrust 8 Escort could generate enough positional sideways
> thrust to dodge a missile under (3), but not under (2).

> The movement system used and the house rules then play a
> key role in determining the effectiveness of the one-shot
> short range killers.

Yep.
 
> Also, a Thrust 2 Battleship is an easy target under
> (2) and (3) for Wave Guns and Nova Cannons because its
> location and course are predictable turns ahead of time.

Um... Yes, its location and course are predictable. Now line your WG or
NC
up exactly on that position from 24+ mu away - that isn't very easy. At
least not to me :-/ (Heck, even at 12 mu it is difficult...)

> Also, I am working on some tactics and fleet doctrines
> for Vector Thrust which I will post in a couple of days.

> I have a few solutions to the Wall v Wall slugging matches
> that some people dislike.  Part of strategy is building
> a good fleet, and part is knowing how to use it.  If
> you just don't like having to roll 6's all the time,
> have a house rule that you can combine batteries and
> say:
> "The 18 d6 I could roll for damage requiring 6 to hit I
> am actually going to roll and 6d6 requiring 4's."
> 
> What happens when you replace 4 A Beams with 6 Needle Guns?
> Is 2 points of damage versus level3 shields worth an
> average of killing a system a turn? 

Is 2 points of damage vs lvl-3 screens for several turns in a row worth
an
average of killing one system during the single turn the enemy is within
9
mu and in the right fire arc? No, not IMO. Very large ships (Mass 100+)
with lvl-3 screens and no offensive weapons except Needles are effective
once they get into range, but not before then.

> How close do your Dreadnoughts get to the enemy Dreadnoughts? 

Depends. At the speeds I most often use - 15-20 mu for capitals, but
often
higher too - the battle-lines don't stay at short ranges for very long
unless one side manages to match vectors with the other.

> One FCS
> can fire all the Needle Guns, so 3-6 needle guns on a
> Cruiser or Capital ship would really affect the final
> clash, while still leaving FCS available for conventional
> beams.
 
> I'm not sure what some people actually object to about
> Wall V Wall combat.  Is it that it takes about 6-8 rounds
> for equal sized ships to cripple or destroy each other?

6-8 turns? Only if you stay at really close ranges (ie, within 12 mu of
the
enemy), for those heavily screened ships. Yes, I might be able to keep
the
range close - but I usually don't want to (since that keeps _my_ ships
very
close to all of _theirs_ too <g>).

> In that case, play with Wave Gun Cruisers and Sub Space
> Bombers and each hit will take out a ship.  Very quick
> indeed.

Yes. _When_ they hit, which usually takes me a while (or even _if_ they
manage to hit before losing their weapons).

Regards,

Oerjan Ohlson

"Life is like a sewer.
What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."
- Hen3ry