Re: Babylon 5 Wars (LONG)

On Sun, 16 Mar 1997, Christopher Weuve wrote:

> True, but FT's 12-point system (i.e., 30 degree turns are the limit)
gives you 
> a much finer gradation than the 6 point system (i.e., 60 degree turns
are the 
> limit) of B5W.  

Agreed.

> I need to double-check the FT rules (it's been a while), but 
> IIRC the only real reason for limiting the turns to clock-facing
increments 
> seemed to be to guarantee that people didn't fudge their facing.  

The real reason? Allowing smaller turns would make giving orders harder,
as you'd have to specify exactly how much to turn. And what if you
want a 45 degree turn? Do you turn 15-30, 30-15 or 22.5-22.5? More 
complexity, which is unnecessary since all the weapon arcs are rather
generous.

Hex grid suits 6-point heading well. Finer gradiation doesn't fare so 
well. The six-sidedness of it is a fact of life. I just live with when I

play hex-games.

> Steve Jackson Games has the rights to it now -- hoepfully we will see
a new 
> version of it come out soon.	(http://www.io.com/sjgames/triplan/)

Steve has had the rights for some time. Steve also has a number of other
projects he'd really like to do. Has wanted to do for a long time. I'll
just say I believe a SJG release date when I hold the product in my
hands. 
  
> It could be grafted on, but that means that the rotation rules would
have to 
> be changed as well.  

What's so hard about that? If turning 60deg costs X thrust, turning 30 
costs X/2.

> No heading change, so your anaylsis is probably correct.  It's a very
poor 
> mechanism to compensate for a lack of smaller turns.

It's also very common in hex-based games.
 
> But you don't need to do physics homework.  Triplanetary, for example,
has the 
> shortest movement rules I have ever seen in a tactical space game. 
LNL's and 
> MayDay's are about the same length, and so are Battle Rider's.  

The movement system doesn't have to be complicated -- its effects are.
A bit like chess. Just because you know the rules doesn't mean you can 
win a game.

Don't get me wrong. I really, really like newtonian movement. But every
time I try it, people end up flying all over the place, either colliding
with everything or zooming off the board. How long could you play
Asteroids, if it didn't wrap your ship over the screen edge? 

A typical case is two forces accelerating towards each other, meeting
and 
then flying off the board before they can decelerate and change course.
Or people moving too carefully because they're afraid they can't
control it.

> You don't need a navigational computer for Triplanetary -- you need
the 
> ability to count and the ability to draw a (mostly) straight line.  

Will that answer the question: "Given my initial velocity and position,
what's the fastest way to be at point X at full stop?" Because that's
what players want to know, not "where do I end up if I use 3 thrust?"
  
> AoG said the same thing, and I will admit I don't understand why it is
more 
> alienating to present a simple movement system that allows you to
recreate 
> maneuvers seen in the show, than a more complicated system which does
not.  

It's the control. It's not about understanding the rules, it's about 
being able to do what you want to do. Believe me or not, newtonian
movement robs that control from players who don't like planning
and calculating several turns ahead.

> Tthis is like saying that it would be alienating if, in Dirtside II,
they 
> didn't allow magic.

More like if DS2 required you to roll for stopping your tanks and after 
failing a couple of rolls you'd have to watch helplessly as they plowed 
off the board. 
 
> And what about all the people who are alienated with the idiotic space
games 
> out there?  Most of the gamers I know who won't play tactical space
games 
> won't do so because of the movement system.

You got me there. I haven't seen a single one of those.

> Oh well -- perhaps Tuffley's B5 rules will save the day.  I sure hope
so.

Oh well, I guess I'll settle for the B5 figures :-)

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