Re: [GZG] what's the latest news on Full Thrust

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Indy 
>>On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:13 PM, Eric Foley <stiltman@teleport.com>
wrote:

>>What I mean is, if you're going at 4 MU, and you have the ability to
make 2 point turns
>>in cinematic, the area in which you may be expected to end up is
around 7-8 MU in diameter.
>>At this speed, the ability to make this turn does not fundamentally
affect any mechanics of the game.

>>However, if you're going at 40 MU, and you retain the ability to make
that same 2 point turn
>>in cinematic, the area in which you may be expected to end up is
around 7-80 MU in diameter.

>I presume you meant 70-80 MU diameter.

Yeah, my initial example was 400 MU speed and 7-800; I took away a zero
to bring it back to something that could non-insanely happen in an
actual game and it didn't read as well. :P

>Still not "turning on a dime". As John pointed out, your turn arc
merely increases. I don't
>see where this is anywhere a problem.

The problem is that when many of the otherwise most potent weapons in
the game operate on trying to guess where this ship is going to turn up
in order to hit it, the speed alone effectively becomes an effective
defense by widening the area in which you may land.  It doesn't even
take a whole lot of turning ability to completely throw off the
targeting at this speed and turn it into a matter of lucky guesswork. 
They might be flying off into the next planetary shell on that turn, or
they may be swooping into needle beam range, and you have to make a
decision on whether to either expend salvo missile ammunition or give up
your ability to fire a plasma bolt in the next turn based on which you
think it is.  If you're not going similarly fast and they also have such
weapons, they can hit you much more easily and they don't even have to
get very close.  All they have to do is get just within the firing range
in one turn and drop off their missiles or plasma and then swoop back
out 
 on the firing turn to avoid your counter-fire.  In vector, this is not
possible.

And keep in mind, I'm saying this and I don't even _like_ vector.  I've
always played cinematic and enjoy doing so.  However, it's got a flaw
here that I don't like that doesn't exist in vector.  I just think that
if you're going at Ludicrous Speed, you shouldn't be able to turn just
as well as you can if you're barely moving at all.  Let's not even go
into the issue of what happens with an advanced drive 4 instead of a
normal drive 4 at these speeds.  Even at 20 MU, thrust 4A gets pretty
stupid to try to hit.
 
>>At _this_ speed, the continued ability to make this turn radically
changes the game.
>>Trying to target that ship with any sort of indirect fire is largely
pointless.  Even
>>direct fire weapons are only possible to use on the speeder's own
terms.	It's the main
>>tactical reason to use such speeds, because people flying
significantly slower ones are 
>>basically forced to operate the entire game on your terms when you do.

>That's called taking the initiative.

>Or change your tactical thinking. If Force Blue is flying around at 80+
speeds and Force Red 
>is flying at 10-20 speeds, Blue is going to have a devil of a time
trying to get lined up 
>anywhere close to target Red. And if Red is defending an area (planet,
base, asteroid, 
>whatever), there is no need for it to go far. Just sit tight and wait
for Blue to get its 
>maneuvering under control and get closer. I don't see where the Oerjan
speeds break anything. 
>Just changes the tactics you have to employ. You can either play your
opponent's game, or make 
>them play yours.  

If major elements of the game weren't based on guesswork, I'd be more
fine with this.  The main reason it's a problem is because of the
indirect fire rules.  If missiles and plasma were on a to-hit roll or
some other kind of fixed opposed roll (i.e. you roll to hit and then the
other guy still gets to roll point defense anyway) and there were no
guesswork involved in hitting a ship at this speed I'd have no problem
with it.  If getting to pick the firing range was the _only_ advantage
you got from going at such speeds, it'd still be a little bit weird but
it'd be easier to swallow.

E
Mk
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