Philosophy/Design of SF War Games was Re: (DS): Systems per Class

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:40:55 +0200 Oerjan Ohlson
<oerjan.ohlson@telia.com> writes:
<snip> I want DS and SG to actually be the SF games they claim 
>to be, not historical games in disguise :-/
>
I think I see.	Or perhaps not.

You want  to 'Stepford Wives' the game.  Not just fix the flaws in the
current game (simple plastic surgery - like removing the weapons per
class rule) but take the mechanics that are deemed best in the FMA
system(s) - one argue that the differences between SG 2 and DS 2 are at
best divergent - and replace the things you don't like (the "1980's
Historical game") with elements that you do like [an undefined something
that reflects  "...the SF games they claim  to be..."]	And that's a
valid view but it's not DS 3 as much a change of such proportions to
merit a new title. *  And I am not saying that might not be the best
route but not one that I thought we were talking about.

Strangely, I think the best books/stories in SF dealing with war/battle
are inspired by mankind's past military history. To use two books that I
read this year that pander to this view I refer to Tanya Huff's two SF
books that I know of (yes, she is primarily a Fantasy writer - if number
of books are how one's main genre are determined -  and oddly enough I
haven't read any of her fantasy books.)  I think this style of books 
are
not what O. O. is referring to though.

I also think that war/battle (assuming we continue as we currently are
doing on into 2050 to 2183 (+) which I highly doubt) will not be
anything
like we currently see it.  If rate of change continues (maybe, maybe
not)
then major changes will occur in the next decade or two.

The machine gun was overlooked for a while by many (or at least seen as
an adjunct not a change agent) as was the tank.  Yes most people saw it
playing a big role but not as it turned out with possibly rare
exceptions
in 1920 when it had been exposed to operational events.  Even after the
role of the tank was clearer in the 1930's you had designs like the
Sherman - arguably the 'most successful "worst" design' for a tank in
WW2.  Why should we expect to know what future war will be like in 2100?

That view may be from my roots which come from historical war games even
if I play more SF lately (past few years) but I think it's because we
think in terms of what happened in the past (consciously or
unconsciously) and project that into our SF games.  While the SG 2/DS 2
games HAVE been passed by historical events (my rules show copyrights of
1996 and 1993 but they grew out of re-writes of older games -dates???)
that might imply major surgery - as in the 6 Million Dollar man model -
faster, stronger, better - the better question might be "What do you
(plural) think a SF war game should be like?"  

I think we have no idea what future Wars beyond 50 years will look like.

I think we no longer have wars (certainly not declared wars) as such but
undeclared conflicts that start and end with less and less certain
dates.

I guess I need to get a better feel for what you (O. O.) and others
think
a  "SF game" should look like.

so let me ask officially:

 "What do you (plural) think a SF war game should be like?  What
elements
are not in SG 2 and DS 2 that should be to reflect that view?"	

The forum is open.

Gracias,
Glenn

* and if you do that and call it DS 3 can we inject a little cultural
and
political reality and make the LLAR a serious second or third tier
player?  I will buy off on the UK/Canada recycling the USA (national
bias
overcome)  and possibly Mexico (getting a little iffy in my mind)  to
include parts of Central America maybe (If I cede Mexico I can see parts
of Central america being sucked in.)  But all of South America?  If that
happened then the NAC would not be as portrayed because of simple
population and language factors  --or--  would be tied up militarily
with
neo-national and neo-ethnic strife and unable to be the power it's
portrayed as being.

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