whine and SF games by non-SF players was Re: (DS): Systems per Class

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 05:55:36 -0700 (PDT) John Atkinson
<johnmatkinson@yahoo.com> writes:
>--- Glenn M Wilson <warbeads@juno.com> wrote:
<snip>

at that
>> location until they are shot dead.  But artillery
>> use (or abuse by
>> non-use/misuse) is enough to make a GM cry for some
>> reason in most games
>
>Eh?  
>What's the problem with it?  Are they just not
>realizing how much fun it is?
>

Dern if I know.  They are historical gamers almost 100% but I've seen
their level of play.  The one plays mostly pre-WW2 when I have seen him
at local cons and weekly game days very competently. I THINK he ran some
WW2 armor fairly competently in a game that was at another table at a
con.  I also know he seems very knowledgable about Nappies both history
and game rules - including one set used in an on-going campaign (hit
1815
and start over) by one of our GMs (it's the only 25 mm rules/nappies I
play regularly) and manages to regularly keep from getting destroyed
(unlike me who is dangerous with infantry to the enemy and dangerous to
himself and others on his own side if given cavalry - although just once
I would like to better then outnumbered 2.5 to one and outclassed * and
minimally adequate with Arty.)	He generally holds his own or better. 
Maybe it's the pre-armor thing that limits his play in DS 2.

The other guy is generally competent in major eras (WW2 land - skirmish
through regimental micro armor, ACW, WW2 naval, Nappies) of historical
games - Ahem, he would have done better recently if some one (red glow)
hadn't run over his line of DDs with the Yamato.  Dratted 4 turn delay
between writing and executing orders.	He is well read in historical
matters from 1939 through today from our conversations.  Maybe it's the
SF thing that throws him for a loop.  I don't know.

Yet, for example,  in a DS 2 game these two played in which I ran
several
years ago at a local con a total of two (repeat two) markers of Arty
ammo
was used by one side (on board arty) -	both counter battery  - and 1 by
the other (off board) in the game.  Too busy fighting the tanks (HVC and
HEL) and Walkers IIRC.	It was an intro game (I think both were
dragooned
by the con staff to avoid canceling my fourth game in two years...)
which
confirmed early on what John and others had said about HELs among other
things.  After that it seemed to set a tradition of arriving at a
position with point value, getting damaged and/or immobilized vehicles
on
the feature and the fight would focus on supporting that unit.	I have
decided I need to develop a scenario where terrain features have nothing
to do with points or winning perhaps.  Or find some experienced modern
micro armor SF players...

Gracias,
Glenn

* one Nappies battle saw  me with 1 unit of poor quality Hussars,
average
quality light cavalry and battered unit of medium Dragoons versus two
units of lights (one bigger then my whole force - a unit of light
lancers
which I initially flanked and drove off board for three turns when they
returned with a grudge to settle,) a unit of good quality Dragoons and
two units of average Heavies in one game - Did I mention they had horse
artillery and I didn't? and that I had a late arriving grenadier
Battalion on  my open (left flank) to coordinate with (who promptly went
into square when the cavalry came over the ridge on turn one and were in
arty grapeshot range by turn three)?  

Rant:
The joys of campaign games...	Fortunately it was Central Europe.  You
should see what I get in the Peninsula scenarios when I can be relied
upon to run the Spanish (Class E (A = good E=worst) lancers and three
small units class  D/E Militia, one carbine armed, ordered to "empty an
armory - in a church, get the wagons off the map, and hold a stream to
delay pursuit" - the stream was between the armory and the Bonapartists
of course and the exit was on the opposite side of the board from the
stream) versus a slightly larger group of C and D Franco-allied Infantry
and two unit of class D Cavalry in one game.)  I just play in the
scenarios so I can blame the overall position on the campaign players...
<grin> although I am not sure I would do any better then they have done.

Yeah, i know where to find sympathy in the dictionary... and I keep
coming back for this abuse <grin> because it's 'fun'!

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