Re: The Tonk!
From: "staremu" <star_emu@h...>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:37:12 -0600
Subject: Re: The Tonk!
That mini you are talking about is a Tonk. The other figures were only
included for scale. It is a Warzone Cybertronic Volunteer troopers mini
with the face redone. A simple conversion. It took some trial and
error to
get the faces to look like more than TMNT spoofs. When I get them all
painted up and photoed, you'll notice some have more pronounced and
rounded
snouts than others. I'm writing this into their anatomy as part of
their
linguistic mechanism - they can inflate areas of their proboscus with
air to
produce the croaking and gargling sounds - think bullfrog or elephant
seal.
Eli
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Clinton" <grumbling_grognard@hotmail.com>
To: <gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:25 AM
Subject: The Tonk!
> Excellent!
>
> I really like them. They have balance and most of all they seem to
have a
> "style" all there own.
>
> Are those non-PA trooper figures GW Imperial Guard with there faces
redone?
> I like them as well, nice job.
>
> I will endeavor to eat only "Tonk Friendly Tuna" from now on out of
respect
> for these noble critters. :-)
>
> Scott Clinton
> The Grumbling Grognard
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: owner-gzg-digest@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (The GZG Digest)
> >Reply-To: gzg-l@scotch.csua.berkeley.edu
> >To: gzg-digest@lists.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> >Subject: The GZG Digest V2 #1544
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 23:00:03 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >The GZG Digest Tuesday, March 11 2003 Volume 02 :
Number
1544
> >
> >
> >
> >The following subjects are discussed in this issue:
> > -
> >Re: [OT] Visit to the States
> >Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >RE: [SG,DS] Power Armour Weapon
> >Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >Minatures Page polls
> >Tonk Webpage
> >RE: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >Re: [SG,DS] Power Armour Weapon
> >RE: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> > -
> >See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing to the
> >GZG digest list, or subscribing to the GZG main list.
> > -
> >
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:12:38 -0500
> >From: Jon Davis <davisje@nycap.rr.com>
> >Subject: Re: [OT] Visit to the States
> >
> >Germy wrote:
> > >
> > > > Stuart Murray, an avid GZG gamer, lives in the Bronx. He's not
on
the
> > > > list currently.
> > > > Jon
> > >
> > > Thanks for the heads up on listers in the NY area.
> > > When I make up my mind as to dates and things then I'll mention
> > > it again, might be worth looking some people up over there.
> > >
> > > Jeremey
> > > www.germy.co.uk
> >
> >
> >I'm in upstate NY, so I'm not that far away either! :-)
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:18:23 -0500
> >From: "Thomas Barclay" <kaladorn@magma.ca>
> >Subject: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >
> >.... are a thing of the past, for a reason. Yes,
> >obsolescent technology still abounds. Yes, it is
> >possible under some circumstances to imagine
> >the re-development of certain technologies.
> >Yes, this appeals to the nostalgia of some
> >among us for the good ol' days.
> >
> >But there are reasons these things have went
> >the way of the dodo. They aren't light. They
> >aren't easily portable. And they demand fluid,
> >which isn't light or portable. And the truth is,
> >the capabilities they offer are generally not
> >required.
> >
> >As has been illustrated by others, the fast,
> >sustained fire is not usually a tremendous
> >advantage when fighting a modern enemy
> >force. They tend not to attack in human waves
> >and by clacking away, you'll most likely mark
> >yourself out as a target. And your piddly few
> >thousand feet of theoretical range won't mean
> >much to someone with a missile launcher
> >lurking near the horizon. Kaboom, no more Mr.
> >Machine Gun.
> >
> >Mobility is, in large part, key to survival.
> >Fortifications are nice, but they have historically
> >had drawbacks which still pertain (psychological
> >ones to the force occupying them) and they
> >have distinct drawbacks versus support such as
> >artillery and air, which can crack bunkers like
> >walnuts. And bunkers don't dodge too well.
> >
> >Water cooled systems exist on some larger
> >combat systems for sea use probably because
> >water is something easily access. Some large
> >land combat systems may use them, but
> >precious few.
> >
> >And for the infantry, they are pretty much
> >unheard of in modern usage. Why? If I'm going
> >to carry 15 lbs. of water, a tripod, and my HMG
> >(even with some helpers), that's a lot of weight.
> >If I plan to use it for continous fire, that's a
> >huge amount of ammo (in fact, one example of
> >overuse of ammunition is quite visible in the
> >new Bruce Willis film Tears of the Sun - we must
> >have missed the off screen supply drop - but
> >it's a movie so we suspend disbelief). All of that
> >weighs. And as a poor gropos, you're already
> >carrying possibly NBC gear, body armour, basic
> >combat load, etc. - You're already moving like
> >you've got a monkey on your shoulders, and
> >the enemies' bullets haven't got noticeably
> >slower.
> >
> >Most modern squad weapons (and even the
> >support det's MGs) tend to fire in bursts at
> >targets of opportunity or to suppress rather
> >than fully automatic versus a non-existent
> >human wave. If we want to apply indirect fire,
> >we use mortars. If we want to destroy
> >something we really don't like, we use a
> >grenade launchers, recoilless rifle, IAVR or an
> >ATGM. Or we call for support.
> >
> >If a human wave does come, a combination of
> >rapid fire from rifles and elevated fire rates
> >from support weapons is probably in order, but
> >so too is artillery, grenades (rifle and hand) and
> >most especially, the old favorite - the Claymore
> >mine. And since we're carrying all of this stuff
> >around (because it *does* stuff the MG does
> >not), adding extra weight to no real gain
> >wouldn't make much sense.
> >
> >Adding water cooled weapons systems would
> >mean an increased demand for logistics (more
> >bits than the air cooled versions). Assuming we
> >were doing this to let them fire faster/longer,
> >we'd eat up more ammo we'd have to carry
> >around. We'd also have to hump the coolant
> >and recirculation gear. Extra weight very bad.
> >
> >Where might it make sense to investigate
> >modern fluid cooling systems, perhaps using
> >water and microtubes or perhaps using
> >something like liquid nitrogen?
> >
> >1) If we had a rugged enough system.
> >Radiators tend not to be too rugged.
> >2) If we could get good cooling efficiencies
> >(might work well if using things other than
> >water).
> >3) If we could do it in a way that didn't bulk up
> >the weapons.
> >4) If it was someplace the advantage the
> >weapon gained was useful (say installed in the
> >aforementioned targets.... I mean fixed
> >defenses). It might make sense to support
> >something like this in a Starship Troopers world
> >with swarms of bugs, but I don't think you could
> >actually carry enough ammo to win those
> >fights...
> >5. On a vehicle where the added
> >complexity/logistics might not matter.
> >6. PA is debatable. You'll need some water for
> >your soldier, but you can't use that. He can't
> >drink heated water and water he's drank can't
> >be used to cool the weapon. Water he sweats
> >out, if you could somehow catch it all, is
> >probably near body temperature. And you
> >aren't planning to recirc water from the blazing
> >hot gunbarrel around inside the suit near the
> >wearer were you? I think not. And the weight
> >you spend on this cuts down armour,
> >electronics, ammunition, sensor systems, or
> >movement speed and increases ground
> >pressure (an important issue if you don't want
> >to get stuck). And of course, the whole point of
> >doing this is to be able to fire more.... which
> >kind of suggests more ammo yet, also robbing
> >your design of further other capabilities.
> >You might put something like this on a
> >dedicates fire support PA suit, but even that is
> >doubtful.
> >
> >For most cases, there is just little modern
> >justification for this kind of technology for
> >infantry arms. For vehicles, it is a debatable
> >point, but there could be uses. For PA, in
> >restricted cases, perhaps. But by en large, this
> >is a thing of the past an should be relegated
> >into the same bin of fantasy as steam powered
> >tanks or gas powered PA. ;)
> >
> >(Which is to say, if it floats your boat, do it....
> >but don't worry too hard about trying to justify
> >it on a reality basis.....)
> >
> >Tomb.
> >
> >
> >- ----------------------------------------------------
> >Mr. Thomas Barclay
> >Software Developer & Systems Analyst
> >thomas.barclay@stargrunt.ca
> >- ----------------------------------------------------
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:34:05 -0500
> >From: Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com>
> >Subject: RE: [SG,DS] Power Armour Weapon
> >
> >At 12:07 AM +0000 3/12/03, CS Renegade wrote:
> > >This is a job for Reason [1].
> > >
> > >So I've gone to the trouble and expense of putting
> > >my troops in powered armour [2] and then I equip
> > >them with an MG designed three hundred years ago?
> >
> >Umm, no. You've equipped him with a very modern machine gun that uses
> >principles from 300 years ago because some systems just continue to
> >work.
> >
> >Again, consider the need to 'hose' down advancing hordes of fuzzy
> >wuzzies, Posleen, Kra'Vak, Islamic Fed or ESU troopies.
> >
> >Grenades are great, but what if you need low angle, direct fire?
> >
> > >
> > >Regards vehicle radiators, I don't understand all
> > >this enthusiasm for water. There's something green
> > >and slimy slopping about in my radiator, and it
> > >isn't just there to act as antifreeze and rust
> > >inhibitor.
> >
> >Sounds like you aren't changing the fluid every year.
> > >
> > >2. Two thousand pounds of armour and psuedo-
> > > musulature amplifying the wearer's movements
> > > and moderated by negative feedback, just like
> > > Uncle Bob promised us? Needs a checklist of
> > > three hundred and forty-seven items when
> > > drawn from stores? Item 348: add water to MG?
> >
> >Add water to entire system. It works for maintaining the user (he
> >drinks water still right?) cooling the user (he still needs a 75
> >degree F environment right?), cooling the power pack (unless you've
> >got something better?) and now, cooling the support weapon that the
> >trooper uses.
> >- --
> >- --
> >- ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >- - Ryan Montieth Gill '01 Honda Insight -
> >- - rmgill@SPAmindspring.com '85 CB700S -
> >- - ryan.gill@SPAMturner.com '76 Chevy Monte Carlo -
> >- - www.mindspring.com/~rmgill '72 Honda CB750 -
> >- - '60 Daimler FV701H Mk2/3 -
> >- - '42 Daimler Scout Car Mk II -
> >- - I speak not for CNN, nor they for me -
> >- ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >- - The director of Home Security encourages you to -
> >- - turn in your neighbor & spy on your friends. -
> >- ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >- - C&R-FFL / Protect your electronic rights! \ EFF-ACLU -
> >- - SAF & NRA/ Join the EFF! http://www.eff.org/ \ DoD #0780 -
> >- ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:03:55 -0500
> >From: "Imre A. Szabo" <ias@sprintmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >
> > > Where might it make sense to investigate
> > > modern fluid cooling systems, perhaps using
> > > water and microtubes or perhaps using
> > > something like liquid nitrogen?
> >
> >Liquid nitrogen is a crygenic. It would be complicated to keep get
the
> >cooling cycle right to keep from damaging the barrel to by cooling it
down
> >too quickly. The there is also problem with brittleness of a frozen
> >barrel.
> >It would really bite to drop your weapon and have the barrel break...
> >
> > > 1) If we had a rugged enough system.
> > > Radiators tend not to be too rugged.
> >
> >Screw threads are rugged radiators, and the Steyr AUG already has
them.
> >Now
> >if you combined screw threaded barrels on a gatling gun, you've got
> >radiators with forced air circulation. A three, screw threaded,
barreled
> >gatling gun set for 50 round bursts could be just the ticket for PA
use...
> >
> >ias
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:02:09 -0500
> >From: "Nicholas Caldwell" <nicholascaldwell@earthlink.net>
> >Subject: Minatures Page polls
> >
> >If you haven't been by lately, the miniatures page is holding a
couple of
> >polls regarding Full Thrust.
> >
> >www.theminiaturepages.com/polls/
> >
> >Nick Caldwell
> >nicholascaldwell@earthlink.net
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:37:42 -0600
> >From: "staremu" <star_emu@hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Tonk Webpage
> >
> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >
> >- ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C2E7FD.4D38B7A0
> >Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> >Hey all,
> >
> >I put together a bunch of playtest rules and mods for the Tonk and =
> >posted them on my website. If you'd like to go check them out feel
free
=
> >- -
> >
> >http://staremu.mpgsonline.com/the_tonk.htm
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Eli
> >
> >- ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C2E7FD.4D38B7A0
> >Content-Type: text/html;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
> ><HTML><HEAD>
> ><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
> >charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> ><META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>
> ><STYLE></STYLE>
> ></HEAD>
> ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey all,</FONT></DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I put together a bunch of playtest =
> >rules and mods=20
> >for the Tonk and posted them on my website. If you'd like to go
=
> >check them=20
> >out feel free -</FONT></DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
>
>href=3D"http://staremu.mpgsonline.com/the_tonk.htm">http://staremu.mpgs
on=
> >line.com/the_tonk.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Eli</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
> >
> >- ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01C2E7FD.4D38B7A0--
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:34:58 +1100
> >From: Beth.Fulton@csiro.au
> >Subject: RE: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >
> >G'day Tom,
> >
> > > advantage when fighting a modern enemy
> > > force. They tend not to attack in human waves
> >
> >What about waves of aliens like the guys have talked about in the
John
> >Ringo
> >(?) books?
> >
> > > For most cases, there is just little modern
> > > justification...
> >
> >I was looking sci-fi not modern ;)
> >
> > > But by en large, this
> > > is a thing of the past an should be relegated
> > > into the same bin of fantasy as steam powered
> > > tanks or gas powered PA. ;)
> > > (Which is to say, if it floats your boat, do it....
> > > but don't worry too hard about trying to justify
> > > it on a reality basis.....)
> >
> >I'm in between these two extremes, I want some semi-sensible
justifications
> >(as wooden space ships don't do anything for me, but steam powered
tanks
> >do), but am not a necessarily super hard near sci-fi kinda person.
> >
> >Thanks for the info.
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Beth
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:34:35 -0500
> >From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com>
> >Subject: Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >
> >Tomb, what the hell.
> >
> >I suggest that Water cooled barrels in the context of Power armor
> >could be a viable solution because of the following:
> >
> >The need for sustained fire vs high volume bursts.
> >
> >The need for minimal difficult to acquire consumables off of high
> >tech worlds where super concentrated buckeyball cooling fluid isn't
> >really available.
> >
> >The need for enhancing barrel length in excess of what you get with
> >air cooled weapons in any materials science context.
> >
> >The possibility that you'd actually have to go up against waves of
> >attackers (I'll bet planners didn't expect Human Waves in Korea)
> >especially in far away, out of the way places where you can't get
> >your high-tech buckeyball lined barrels in mass quantities to
replace.
> >
> >The fact that water is universal, troops need it, IC engines need it,
> >it's easy to make, it's easy to find unless you're on Dune and
> >generally available where humans are. Water purification is fairly
> >easy. Rather than needed some superduper glycol based coolant, use
> >water with a bit of anti-freeze added.
> >
> >I'm not talking about a Vickers (1) with the bloody tripod strapped
> >on to some PA troopers arm. I'm talking about a sleek barrel with a
> >small, armored jacket or even set of tubes running down it's length
> >that would have a return and supply line running to the back mounted
> >Power and environmental unit on the PA. Run the cooling circuits in
> >parallel, one air circulator slightly larger for the increased
> >airflow.
> >
> >Your barrels will last much longer if they stay a lower temperature.
> >You won't have to change barrels nearly as often and given realistic
> >supply lines, you'll be able to source a more basic type of ammo from
> >a variety of sources vs relying on your super supply chain all the
> >way back to high tech worlds where they make your super buckey-ball
> >materials.
> >
> >With any super high rate of fire concept (multiple barrels) you're
> >going to still have to replace those barrels after sustained fire use
> >(air does not conduct heat nearly as well as water, even if your
> >barrels are spinning around) and you're going to run out of ammo long
> >before. A lower, more sustained rate with better barrel cooling seems
> >the way to go for me. Suppose that doctrine use two different methods
> >at the same time (Horrors! two different ideas in concurrent
> >use...Can you say FW190 and BF109????!!?).
> >
> >1. From a primitive world standpoint, one very well could run up
> >against local troops with such weapons based on the previously
> >mentioned local technology limits. Supply of such weapons would be
> >simple as would the technology needed to support such weapons. A
> >water cooled weapon doesn't have all that much more parts than an air
> >cooled weapon and it's likely to have lower temperature ranges given
> >certain conditions.
> >- --
> >- --
> >Ryan Gill rmgill@SPAMmindspring.com
> >- ----------------------------------------------------------
> > | | | -==----
> > | O--=- | | /_8[*]°_\
> > |_/|o|_\_| | _________ | /_[===]_\
> > / 00DA61 \ |/---------\| __/ \---
> > _w/|=_[__]_= \w_ // [_] o[]\\ _oO_\ /_O|_
> > |: O(4) == O :| _Oo\=======/_O_ |____\ /____|
> > |---\________/---| [__O_______W__] |x||_\ /_||x|
> > |s|\ /|s| |s|/BSV 575\|s| |x|-\| |/-|x|
> > |s|=\______/=|s| |s|=|_____|=|s| |x|--|_____|--|x|
> > |s| |s| |s| |s| |x| |x|
> >'60 Daimler Ferret '42 Daimler Dingo '42 Humber MkIV (1/2)
> >- ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:49:04 -0500
> >From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
> >Subject: Re: [SG,DS] Power Armour Weapon
> >
> >From: "Ryan M Gill" <rmgill@mindspring.com>
> > > Again, consider the need to 'hose' down advancing hordes of fuzzy
> > > wuzzies, Posleen, Kra'Vak, Islamic Fed or ESU troopies.
> >
> >IFed don't usually do the human wave route any more, now that we've
> >got someplace to put our excess peasants. And our troops are mostly
> >not all *that* motivated to collect the 70 sloe-eyed virgins.
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:48:37 -0500
> >From: Ryan Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com>
> >Subject: RE: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >
> >At 1:34 PM +1100 3/12/03, Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
> > >G'day Tom,
> > >
> > >> advantage when fighting a modern enemy
> > >> force. They tend not to attack in human waves
> > >
> > >What about waves of aliens like the guys have talked about in the
John
> >Ringo
> > >(?) books?
> >
> >No, you're suppose to wave your hands about and talk about how that
> >never happens. Plus if it did, you'd call on the support dudes in the
> >rear with their mortars and stuff. Oh, you say, they got munched on
> >the assault landing?? BOHICA then.
> >
> >
> >- --
> >- --
> >Ryan Gill rmgill@SPAMmindspring.com
> >- ----------------------------------------------------------
> > | | | -==----
> > | O--=- | | /_8[*]°_\
> > |_/|o|_\_| | _________ | /_[===]_\
> > / 00DA61 \ |/---------\| __/ \---
> > _w/|=_[__]_= \w_ // [_] o[]\\ _oO_\ /_O|_
> > |: O(4) == O :| _Oo\=======/_O_ |____\ /____|
> > |---\________/---| [__O_______W__] |x||_\ /_||x|
> > |s|\ /|s| |s|/BSV 575\|s| |x|-\| |/-|x|
> > |s|=\______/=|s| |s|=|_____|=|s| |x|--|_____|--|x|
> > |s| |s| |s| |s| |x| |x|
> >'60 Daimler Ferret '42 Daimler Dingo '42 Humber MkIV (1/2)
> >- ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:51:32 -0500
> >From: "Imre A. Szabo" <ias@sprintmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >
> > > I suggest that Water cooled barrels in the context of Power armor
> > > could be a viable solution because of the following:
> > >
> > > The need for sustained fire vs high volume bursts.
> >
> >You really need both, and electric gattling guns deliever both.
> >
> > > The need for minimal difficult to acquire consumables off of high
> > > tech worlds where super concentrated buckeyball cooling fluid
isn't
> > > really available.
> >
> >Then how are you going to maintain the PA?
> >
> > > The need for enhancing barrel length in excess of what you get
with
> > > air cooled weapons in any materials science context.
> >
> >Most of the material in a barrel isn't to keep the pressure in. It's
to
> >keep the barrel from drooping and to act as a heat sink.
> >
> > > The possibility that you'd actually have to go up against waves of
> > > attackers (I'll bet planners didn't expect Human Waves in Korea)
> > > especially in far away, out of the way places where you can't get
> > > your high-tech buckeyball lined barrels in mass quantities to
replace.
> >
> >Then again, how are you going to maintain the PA? If you can't get
the
> >small parts to replace on the mini-gun, how are you going to get the
large
> >parts to replace worn out components on the PA?
> >
> > > The fact that water is universal, troops need it, IC engines need
it,
> > > it's easy to make, it's easy to find unless you're on Dune and
> > > generally available where humans are. Water purification is fairly
> > > easy. Rather than needed some superduper glycol based coolant, use
> > > water with a bit of anti-freeze added.
> >
> >Just don't try using it on Hoth...
> >
> > > I'm not talking about a Vickers (1) with the bloody tripod
strapped
> > > on to some PA troopers arm. I'm talking about a sleek barrel with
a
> > > small, armored jacket or even set of tubes running down it's
length
> > > that would have a return and supply line running to the back
mounted
> > > Power and environmental unit on the PA. Run the cooling circuits
in
> > > parallel, one air circulator slightly larger for the increased
> > > airflow.
> >
> >Some how I suspect that the power jack built into the mounting point
for
a
> >mini-gun would be much less sensative shrapnel damage...
> >
> > > Your barrels will last much longer if they stay a lower
temperature.
> > > You won't have to change barrels nearly as often and given
realistic
> > > supply lines, you'll be able to source a more basic type of ammo
from
> > > a variety of sources vs relying on your super supply chain all the
> > > way back to high tech worlds where they make your super
buckey-ball
> > > materials.
> >
> >Yet again, how are you going to maintain the PA? I wouldn't be to
quick
on
> >the ammo sourcing. Higher tech ammo opperates at higher pressure.
This
> >means that unless your gun is externally powered, it won't cycle the
weapon
> >reliable, if at all. So now you have both coolent lines and a power
jack
> >if
> >you want a reliable weapon. Why not just go with a mini-gun and get
rid
of
> >the coolent lines?
> >
> > > With any super high rate of fire concept (multiple barrels) you're
> > > going to still have to replace those barrels after sustained fire
use
> > > (air does not conduct heat nearly as well as water, even if your
> > > barrels are spinning around) and you're going to run out of ammo
long
> > > before. A lower, more sustained rate with better barrel cooling
seems
> > > the way to go for me. Suppose that doctrine use two different
methods
> > > at the same time (Horrors! two different ideas in concurrent
> > > use...Can you say FW190 and BF109????!!?).
> >
> >Electric gattling guns both provide high rate of fire bursts AND slow
> >sustained rate of fire. The six barreled GE XM214 5.56 mini-gun is
> >typically NOT set at its maximum rate of fire of 10,000 rpm.
Typically
it
> >is set at between 400 and 4,000 rpm. That means the typical settings
for
a
> >three barreled 5.56 mini-gun would be between 200 and 5,000 rpm.
> >
> > > 1. From a primitive world standpoint, one very well could run up
> > > against local troops with such weapons based on the previously
> > > mentioned local technology limits. Supply of such weapons would be
> > > simple as would the technology needed to support such weapons. A
> > > water cooled weapon doesn't have all that much more parts than an
air
> > > cooled weapon and it's likely to have lower temperature ranges
given
> > > certain conditions.
> >
> >I still say that if you can maintian PA, you can maintain electric
gattling
> >guns...
> >
> >ias
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:17:44 +1100
> >From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" <aebrain@webone.com.au>
> >Subject: Re: Water Cooled Vickers Guns....
> >
> >From: "Ryan Gill" <rmgill@mindspring.com>
> >
> > > With any super high rate of fire concept (multiple barrels) you're
> > > going to still have to replace those barrels after sustained fire
use
> > > (air does not conduct heat nearly as well as water, even if your
> > > barrels are spinning around) and you're going to run out of ammo
long
> > > before. A lower, more sustained rate with better barrel cooling
seems
> > > the way to go for me. Suppose that doctrine use two different
methods
> > > at the same time (Horrors! two different ideas in concurrent
> > > use...Can you say FW190 and BF109????!!?).
> >
> >...or you can make the barrels disposable. Change barrel when you
change
> >magazine. Barrles can then be made so light (because they don't have
to
> >last more than a few rounds) that the weight penalty might even be
> >negative.
> >
> >See Metal Storm.
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >End of The GZG Digest V2 #1544
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