African Uniforms
From: DAWGFACE47@w...
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:32:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: African Uniforms
http://pvtpyle.com/African%20.htm
From - Thu May 30 16:08:46 2002
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:37:59 +0100
From: Roger Burton West <roger@firedrake.org>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [OT] An Idea
Message-ID: <20020529213759.GA25130@firedrake.org>
References: <5604-3CF5355E-658@storefull-2238.public.lawson.webtv.net>
<3CF53AE6.29AB0867@stsci.edu> <p05111707b91aee3544b8@[10.188.51.55]>
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On Wed, May 29, 2002 at 05:13:01PM -0400, Z. Lakel wrote:
(message board proposal)
Here's why I don't use message boards:
* The interface is lousy. There are lots of different email clients, but
only one web interface per board. Text editing in particular is very
poorly handled, which may explain why almost all boards I've seen tend
to have very short messages. I can fine-tune my email client for the way
_I_ like to work, and I don't thereby force everyone else to use
substantially the same interface.
* It's rarely possible (I've never seen it, but I'm sure someone has a
counterexample) to catch up on a busy board if you don't read it for a
few days. There's no way to know what's been posted since you last read
it - at best, you'll get a list of new _topics_.
* They're only usable while you're on-line. Many people still pay
connect charges based on time. Being able to read mail at one's leisure
is much more useful...
* They're notoriously hard to archive or make searchable.
I recommend instead that people apply filtering to their mail clients,
if they find that particular posters or topics are not of interest.
Roger
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From: "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: [general] Silk Purse from a Sow's ear, was assorted
Francophobic flame war stuff
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:54:22 -0700
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Ok, all this talk about the French, just HOW French the FSE is, and the
plea
to get it back on topic has prompted me to do some thinking. For a
while
I've been toying with different ideas for my own Tuffleyverse addition.
I
was quickly dissuaded from doiing any sort of NAC offshoot as being
overdone. I'm still toying with the AstroTurks idea, but now I had
another
one:
Given the fact that the FSE IS fairly French, and that it's also fairly
Spanish, has anyone done an anti-FSE breakaway BASQUE colony somewhere?
supporting them might be a way for other powers to tweak the FSe's tail,
and
it would make for interesting flavor.
3B^2
_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:21:54 +1000
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Derek Fulton <derekfulton@bigpond.com>
Subject: OT: UN civpol was Re: THE EYES OF A SOLDIER
In-Reply-To: <p05111702b91ab2eb5f18@[10.188.51.55]>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020530005133.02ea7d20@mail.bigpond.com>
<John Leary <john_t_leary@yahoo.com>
<5.1.0.14.0.20020530005133.02ea7d20@mail.bigpond.com>
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At 12:33 29/05/02 -0400, Ryan wrote:
>At 1:08 AM +1000 5/30/02, Derek Fulton wrote:
>>At 09:18 29/05/02 -0500, DAWGIE wrote:
>>>UN peacekeepers are a huge bad joke. as are observers, and "police".
>>>
>>>again i hear this from cousins who served with them in the Balkans
>>>among other places.
>>
>>I take it you are excluding from your sweeping statement the UNARMED
UN
>>police officers who faced down rampaging militia after the
independence
>>vote in East Timor, protecting East Timorese people who had taken
refuge
>>in the UN compound.
>
>Sadly it really does depend on situation and rules of engagement. I for
>one think its bloody stupid to send military forces into an area to
>protect a peace and not give them ROE that allow for fire in dire
>situations where they or 'protectees' are in danger.
The "civpol" are not military personal, but are drawn from police
forces/services of UN member states. In this case mostly from the
Federal
and State police services in Australia. This was way before the
international community finally decided to send in armed troops to
stabilize the situation.
Cheers
Derek
Derek Fulton
12 Balaka st.
Rosny, Hobart.
Tasmania, 7018.
Australia
Phone; (03) 62459123
Mobile; 0438459123
Email; derekfulton@bigpond.com
URL; http://www.users.bigpond.com/derekfulton/
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From: "John Crimmins" <johncrim@voicenet.com>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: [FMAish] Portraits in Pewter
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And now for something completely different.
No, not a man with three buttocks...not this time, at least.
I'm looking for miniatures of Gamers. Stereotypical gamers, like the
ones that
Thunderbolt Mountain put out a few years ago.
(these guys: http://www.geocities.com/johnxcrim/Graphics/Gamers.jpg )
Other than the TBM versions, does anyone make figures like this? See, I
need
some Satanists for my modern conspiracy skirmish game, and it occurred
to me
that making them gamers would fit perfectly into the tabloid mindset....
Thanks, all!
--
John Crimmins
johncrim@voicenet.com
http://www.voicenet.com/~johncrim
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From: "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: OT: UN civpol was Re: THE EYES OF A SOLDIER
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:01:25 -0700
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>From: Derek Fulton <derekfulton@bigpond.com>
>>Sadly it really does depend on situation and rules of engagement. I
for
>>one think its bloody stupid to send military forces into an area to
>>protect a peace and not give them ROE that allow for fire in dire
>>situations where they or 'protectees' are in danger.
>
>The "civpol" are not military personal, but are drawn from police
>forces/services of UN member states. In this case mostly from the
Federal
>and State police services in Australia. This was way before the
>international community finally decided to send in armed troops to
>stabilize the situation.
Still, this reinforces the point that the choices made by Higher Powers
regarding the type of force sent, ROE's established, etc. can put good
men
(and women) in situations they don't deserve.
To come to Dawgy's defense, and *I COULD BE WRONG*, I think his comments
about peacekeeping forces, police forces, etc., being a joke, are
appropriate and somewhat accurate if taken in the context of being a
reflection of how/why those forces are deployed, and as a reflection on
upper echelon decision making screwups, NOT as a reflection on the
quality
of the units sent themselves. I have nothing but respect and admiration
for
the military or police forces of ANY nation who have donned the blue
armbands and gone into places where they had no vested interest other
than a
commitment to the UN and a sense of duty, among people who revile and
resent
them, and do their damnedest to keep the peace. Well, ok, I have one
other
emotion for them: Pity. Because often these troops, most of whom are
very
good troops, are placed in a situation where the UN and/or governments
involved have placed limits on what they can/cannot/must/must not do
that
conflict with the basic necessities of what must be done to fulfill
their
mission -- effectively ordering them to do a job and then ordering them
not
to do what the job requires. It's a bloody shame, it's a catastrophic
catch-22, and it IS a JOKE, but one of which these men are not the punch
line - merely the punched.
3B^2
_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:21:13 -0400
From: Ray Forsythe <erf2@gte.net>
Organization: Wombat Empire
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John Crimmins wrote:
> And now for something completely different.
>
> No, not a man with three buttocks...not this time, at least.
>
> I'm looking for miniatures of Gamers. Stereotypical gamers, like the
ones that
> Thunderbolt Mountain put out a few years ago.
>
> (these guys: http://www.geocities.com/johnxcrim/Graphics/Gamers.jpg )
>
> Other than the TBM versions, does anyone make figures like this? See,
I need
> some Satanists for my modern conspiracy skirmish game, and it occurred
to me
> that making them gamers would fit perfectly into the tabloid
mindset....
>
> Thanks, all!
>
There's the Knights of the Dinner Table figs:
http://www.kodt.com/miniatures.htm
--
Ray Forsythe - erf2@gte.net - www.wombatzone.com
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: UN civpol was Re: THE EYES OF A SOLDIER
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
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--- Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:
> To come to Dawgy's defense, and *I COULD BE WRONG*,
> I think his comments
> about peacekeeping forces, police forces, etc.,
> being a joke, are
> appropriate and somewhat accurate if taken in the
> context of being a
> reflection of how/why those forces are deployed, and
> as a reflection on
> upper echelon decision making screwups, NOT as a
> reflection on the quality
> of the units sent themselves.
This also varies from mission to mission and from
nation to nation.
KFOR is a whole 'nother world from, say, UNPROFOR.
KFOR also no longer gets any media play because we
more or less bloody well pacified that crappy little
province by the time my unit rotated out.
John
__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [general] Silk Purse from a Sow's ear, was assorted
Francophobic flame war stuff
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--- Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Given the fact that the FSE IS fairly French, and
> that it's also fairly
> Spanish, has anyone done an anti-FSE breakaway
> BASQUE colony somewhere?
> supporting them might be a way for other powers to
> tweak the FSe's tail, and
> it would make for interesting flavor.
I don't think it's been done yet.
Basques with 75% German equipment and a handful of
German advisors. . .
I can think of people I'd rather annoy.
John
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Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:42:09 +1000
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Derek Fulton <derekfulton@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: THE EYES OF A SOLDIER
In-Reply-To: <5606-3CF531A1-405@storefull-2238.public.lawson.webtv.net>
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At 02:53 29/05/02 -0500, you wrote:
>DEREK,
>
>i am speaking of the Balkans the Middle East, and Africa in
>particular,
You should be more careful what you say then, the world is a bit bigger
than that
>you know as well as i do that the Australlian government and people
>would have demand the mlitary blow the Indonesian militias and
>regulars to bloody bits if those UN ARMED POLICE were murdered by the
>miitia .
>
>the militia knew it too. . . .
Are you so sure? The police officer who faced down the militia was armed
only with the force of his personality, do you really think that the
militia running around on a killing spree cared what Australia might do?
And what of the Indonesian Military who set up, supplied and directed
the
militias, their "burn East Timor to the ground" policy speak whole
volumes
about how they cared.
>do not confuse apples with oranges.
>
>Oz is not FRANCE, even a septic knows that.
I'm not confusing anything, This whole ridiculous thread came about when
Beth responded to John A's question about a example of a poorly
organized
military turning into a decent military in a short space of time - The
French in the space of lass then a decade they had transformed from a
disorganized mob to a military that the rest of Europe (including the
British, but their government afraid that this would somehow transport
the
"revolution" to England so wouldn't allow it) tried to emulate (even
down
to the uniforms).
Instead of saying well gee, there's a good example (as Glen did) we find
John debasing the example because since then the French have been unable
to
match their Napoleonic Glory.
No more discussion about how the IF (or the PAU) might be in 150 years
time, just a bunch of blokes, whipping it out and banging it on the
table
to justify their views on whether the French suck or not.
Can anyone see what's wrong here? :(
Cheers
Derek
Derek Fulton
12 Balaka st.
Rosny, Hobart.
Tasmania, 7018.
Australia
Phone; (03) 62459123
Mobile; 0438459123
Email; derekfulton@bigpond.com
URL; http://www.users.bigpond.com/derekfulton/
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Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:46:16 +1000
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
From: Derek Fulton <derekfulton@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] An Idea
In-Reply-To: <20020529213759.GA25130@firedrake.org>
References: <000f01c20755$9e5ee930$dd262041@desktop>
<5604-3CF5355E-658@storefull-2238.public.lawson.webtv.net>
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At 10:37 29/05/02 +0100, you wrote:
>On Wed, May 29, 2002 at 05:13:01PM -0400, Z. Lakel wrote:
>(message board proposal)
>
>Here's why I don't use message boards:
I don't enjoy them either.
Cheers
Derek
Derek Fulton
12 Balaka st.
Rosny, Hobart.
Tasmania, 7018.
Australia
Phone; (03) 62459123
Mobile; 0438459123
Email; derekfulton@bigpond.com
URL; http://www.users.bigpond.com/derekfulton/
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:52:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The same old shit!!!
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Cc: babdea@terra.es
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--- Bob DeAngelis <bobdea@terra.es> wrote:
> Hi
> I returned to the list to take a peek at how things
> are. Just the same I
> see!!!
Actually, just restarted the other day.
> I really must congratulate John on his consistency.
> I see, for him, the
> French are the arseholes of the world right now.
Actually, their major malfunction lately was having a
Nazi place second in their presidential elections.
But I can overlook that as it is only second place.
BTW
> John .they may have
> been a little lacking militarily recently but before
> you blow them away
> completely
Actually, I've restricted my contempt for their
military prowess to post-Napoleon.
ask yourself just how free you would be
> right now if the US
> "freedom fighters" (or were they terrorists..?=0)
Considering that unlike the sides in most civil wars,
we could actually tell the difference between
uniformed combatants and unarmed women and children
(See: Spanish Civil War, English Civil War, Assorted
Irish Uprisings, Any Conflict involving 2 factions of
Russians, etc.), that the Continental Congress openly
declared their revolt, raised a field army, and kicked
the ever-loving shit out of their enemies in open
field battle, to include the first time a British
General Officer had to surrender his entire command,
the correct term would be "insurrecionists."
> ?) had not been ably
> assisted by the presence of a French army of
> liberation and a not
> insignificant French fleet pissing off the British
> navy!!
I'm at least as well aware of the intervention of a
significant force of French marine infantry,
deGrasse's humiliation of the Brit fleet at the Battle
of the Chesapeake, and the personal contributions of a
large number of private French citizens as you are.
You see, I've been to Yorktown a couple or three times
and lived about half my life within a reasonable
distance thereof.
HOWEVER, their singular contribution in the _18th_
century has no bearing whatsoever on the dismal
performance of their army in the 19th and 20th
centuries, the stupidity of the French Government and
People during the period 1870-1940, or the bombastic
egotism of the French during any time period.
John
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [FH] IF, PAU, FSE and ESU (was RE: [OT] Frog Bashing)
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
In-Reply-To: <20020529115126.GA20966@firedrake.org>
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--- Roger Burton West <roger@firedrake.org> wrote:
> the Greeks...
> none of them is really a country to make someone
> brought up with the
> British or American military traditions pay much
> attention.
???
They kicked the Turks out with minor Brit assistance.
This counts for much. Hell, just keeping their
culture alive under the Turks is a major achievement.
That counts for something. They also fought pretty
damn well in WWI and WWII, what do you expect out of a
small nation dragged into a Great Power Slugfest.
They were also one of the most respected NATO
contingents in Korea--not always the best equipped,
but damn tough fighters.
John
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:08:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] armor penatration - angle is important
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--- Richard Kirke <richardkirke@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I really wouldn't worry about that, we are on the
> wholea very calm list,
> with usually a very low level of flame.
Wow.
You should work for the State Department.
John
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:20:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Frog Bashing
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
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--- Alan and Carmel Brain <aebrain@webone.com.au>
wrote:
> > The rest of us feel superior to the French because
> we
> > manage NOT to get our home countries overrun 2.5
> times
> > in 70 years.
>
> Occupational hazard of living next door to Germany.
> Just ask the Poles.
They managed to get partially partitioned 3 times, and
overrun once. This was more due to subversion and the
collaboration of the Russians, Austrians, and
Prussians.
> when the US starts subsidising outrageously rich
> farmers yet again, thereby copying the French EU
> agricultural policy at its worst, and damaging the
> economies of stalwart allies like Australia.
Some of us, believe me, have NO love for US
agricultural policies. I'm a hardcore Free-Trade
nutcase.
> > Fortunately, there were no Iraqis out there,
> > because I doubt the USAF could tell the difference
> > between French armored cars driven by Frenchmen
> and
> > French armored cars driven by Iraqis.
>
> Hell, they can't tell the difference between French
> armoured cars driven by Iraqis and UK AFVs
> driven by Englishmen.
Or BMP-1s driven by Iraqis and Bradleys driven by
Americans.
>Or Canadians and Afghans.
Canadians should coordinate with the USAF when they
decide to run into what was technically Indian Country
and start firing off small-arms and giving a pilot a
near heart attack.
American doctrine calls for holding training maneuvers
BEFORE deploying to a warzone so as to avoid such
problems.
John
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:23:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Frog Bashing
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
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--- Derek Fulton <derekfulton@bigpond.com> wrote:
> At 10:28 28/05/02 -0700, John Leary wrote:
> >John A. shows the world through the eyes of the
> >soldier, he views the world as;
> >1) trusted allies, 2) possible traitors,
> >3) the enemy, 4) and those that do not count.
>
> Going by John's behaviour
>
> 1) Is a very small group.
> 2) Getting larger.
> 3) Very larger.
> 4) Really large group, of the scale in fact.
Definitionally.
John
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:26:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Frog Bashing
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
In-Reply-To:
<Pine.LNX.4.33.0205290704580.28819-100000@cc5127-a.deven1.ov.nl.home.com
>
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--- Derk Groeneveld <derk@cistron.nl> wrote:
> > The rest of us feel superior to the French because
> we
> > manage NOT to get our home countries overrun 2.5
> times
> > in 70 years.
>
> Hmmm... Funny how the loudest comments seem to come
> from those countries
> who happen to be on an island of their own or a
> continent of their own(*).
> But of course that's hardly militarily significant.
Yeah.
It makes it much harder for us to go throw the Germans
out of France.
Twice.
And keep the Russians out by sheer indimidation value.
John
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From: Beth.Fulton@csiro.au
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: [SG] Painting, figs
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:29:42 +1000
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G'day guys,
I was thinking about this some more last night and guessed that it may
only
be insignia that distinguished units in integrated powers like the FSE,
though in some cases skin colour etc could too. Across my nuns I cover 6
different skin shades, and though it looks good (in my opinion at least)
I
wouldn't mind having some figs with different facial features rather
than
just painting Caucasians different skin colours <I'm obviously not
talking
6mm here! ;)>. I know there are Maori and Papuan figs for the OU, and
Japanese figures for the JCM, but I was wondering what the PAU figs look
like. I was also wondering how well the NAC figs (the bareheaded ones)
would
paint up if painted as south or central American in origin or if there
were
Chinese figs for the ESU.
By the way while on the topic of painting... has anyone
a) tried putting camo net on 25mm helmets (think WWII)
b) how do you pain spectacles?
Thanks
Beth
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From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion - Respect = Re: [OT] Frog Bashing
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--- Tony Christney <tchristney@telus.net> wrote:
> It has been said that the French don't really have
> anything to
> brag about militarily. Compared to, for example, the
> mighty
> U.S.A, which is unparalleled in it's ability to bomb
> the crap
> out of second rate armies in third world countries.
> I know that
> that comment will likely just set people off. But I
> would like
> to point out that it's basis is from Mr. Atkinson's
> own remarks.
Yup.
We "bombed the crap out of" second rate armies like
the Brits (twice), the Spanish, the Germans
(twice--the second time around being the first time we
had enough of an air force to drop an appreciable
number of bombs), the Japanese, and the Chinese.
Oh, and stared down the Russians until they blinked.
Plus all the _really_ bad armies we kicked the crap
out of.
John
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Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:34:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [FH] IF, PAU, FSE and ESU (was RE: [OT] Frog Bashing)
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
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--- Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
> The Sulmani IV incident speaks of less than pleasant
> tactics, but doesn't
> shout extremism.
Depends on your definition of extremism.
> By the same token I think the FSE is a lot more than
> just the French and it
> would be good to explore this mix more. I know there
> are some out there that
> have gone for Italian, Spanish etc themes to their
> FSE fleets, has anyone
> done that for DS/SG too or do you think they would
> be more integrated than
> that?
Probably pretty integrated--units will likely retain
national designations (eg, 4th Italian Mechanized
Brigade or something) but in the name of operability
it will probably be on the level of varient paint
schemes and perhaps vehicular grafitti in the national
language.
> sub-continent. Why has it remained part of the ESU
> (if it has)?
Umm. . . latent anti-colonial sentiment?? Who knows?
John
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From: Beth.Fulton@csiro.au
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [FH] IF, PAU, FSE and ESU (was RE: [OT] Frog Bashing)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:43:43 +1000
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G'day,
I know I've trotted these out before, but its been a while and thought
they
might be useful in the current context. Here's some backgroundy blurb I
did
up on the various GZG fleets (based on the results of a poll I did on
the
list re: quality etc) as apart of my doodling with Erratic Thrust.
Cheers
Beth
>>
ESU - The military doctrines as taught by the little known Zi Viskovatov
has
had a lasting effect on the military doctrine of the ESU. Up until the
conclusion of the First Solar War the forces of the ESU exhibited the
centralised structure typical of past Communist regimes. However, during
the
socially turbulent times within the ESU following the signing of the
Freisland Accord there was the need to find some new brilliance to fill
the
void left by the purging of old commanders from the VKF. One of the new
commanders to suddenly find herself thrust into a position of influence
was
Cheng Xi-Lan. She was particularly enamoured with the tactical and
strategic
ideas of the obscure and elderly military philosopher Zi Viskovatov, who
had
held a minor teaching position in the Beijing Academy during the early
2100s. Repackaging Viskovatov's teachings she convinced the ESU high
command
to restructure the fleet around a more decentralised plan and was the
driving force behind the creation of the 'Military Districts'. Thus the
ESU
has its current form of many moderately sized commands which can
flexibly
cover the ESU's extensive holdings and reinforce positions where poor
economics or an aging fleet have left gaps in their defense. For these
reasons they often sport more individual commands and see more instances
were reinforcements mysteriously appear than do any of the other major
nations.
FCT - Though lacking the experience, expertise and sheer volume of
resources
of the much larger powers, such as the NAC or ESU, the FCT has carved
out a
reputation as quite the protection force. Many of its freighters and
research vessels are actually controlled by their military and thus
carry
rudimentary armament and go well escorted.
FSE - The FSE may not be the first to spring to mind when asked to name
an
outstanding navy. However, their consistency across the board means that
they are one of the most dependable forces around. The fact that they
are
now drilling their navigators and science officers in fast response
procedures means that they should be able to exploit their unorthodox
designs and make their extra thrust REALLY count. Just as their
investment
in a relatively large supply force is intended to forestall any chance
of
being caught short in their mainstay of expendable munitions.
IC - Traditionally the IC's navy does not attract its greatest men or
minds
and it is considered their poorest wing with the majority of its crews
made
up of short-term conscripts. However, there is a rumour that they do
have a
few elite crews which man 'ghost' ships reverse engineered from alien
technology found on some of their rim-world holdings. As yet this has
not
been verified and if these ships do exist their technology has not been
more
widely applied to the conventional IC fleet.
IF - The political system of Sultanate and Emirs is best described as a
barely contained berserk ants nest. The fierce rivalries and religious
fervour that the system not only engenders but outright encourages does
mean
that an inspirational leader can summon unfathomable loyalty and
determination from their crews. However, this ability is quite often let
down by poorly maintained vessels and a heavy reliance on FTL tenders,
which
explains the size of the IF's military maintained civilian fleet. The
other
notable by product of their cultural influences on naval doctrine is
that
they have some of the best, or craziest, pilots around.
JAP - The Japanese spacefleet has inherited the proud traditions of
their
wet navy fore-runners and their immense fighter wings are the match of
any
nation. The intimate connections between the corporate and defense
forces
have seen their fleet be the first to boast many state-of-the-art
technologies, such as superior sensors, and immensely powerful weapons,
such
as the wavegun. The Japanese are said to still carry out ritual
farewells
before every combat engagement, these events stem from their traditional
heavy reliance on fighters which had meant that when they took
casualties
they could be on particularly devastating scales. This is no longer true
as
AI now run a sizeable proportion of the Japanese fighters, however the
rituals of farewell apparently persist none-the-less.
LLAR - Another nation whose navy is thought of as the poor sibling to
their
other forces. They rate slightly better than the IC, but only slightly.
They
have currently concentrated their efforts in fighters and small craft,
keeping the action as far as possible from their rare and not so robust
main
battle line. The LLAR's military alliance with the ESU has seen them get
some military support, but they haven't capitalised on it to the extent
of
the increasingly prosperous PAU.
KNG - Surprisingly the man who holds the patent for the AI and design
specifications for the majority of the most effective of the
granaatscherven
was born in Liberia. However, he did emigrate to Holland just before his
second birthday and so he doesn't really mind when people credit the
granaatscherven as a Dutch invention. Admittedly the Dutch have adopted
the
idea with gusto, in fact they seem quite enamoured with the concept and
rely
heavily upon on it to protect their capital heavy fleet from their
opposition's disposable ordinance.
NAC - Despite their proud history and the fact that they dwarf all other
interstellar powers in sheer size and number of ships, the NAC are not
an
all dominating force. They do have reliable ships, good conditions, high
morale and strong traditions, but the fact that they have resorted to
espionage (there are rumours that they stole the plasma torpedo from the
UN)
to boost their weaponry suggests that not everything smells of roses in
the
RSN.
NI - Persecution and religion are always explosive bed-fellows and
within
the NI they have come together to forge a driven, even obsessed, force.
Phoenix-like the nation of New Israel has risen from the ashes of the
nuclear holocaust which obliterated their Terran home. Shunning the
Germanic
support that underlay the effective establishment of the state of Israel
in
the 20th century, New Israel has preferred to be their own source of
design,
resources and manufacture. The Midbar Skunkworks has even risen to such
a
level of excellence that other national military research bodies, such
as
that of the Japanese, have sought it out for collaborative efforts. The
most
notorious electronics produced by the NI is the stellar 'stealth'
system,
which is almost insurmountably more complex than that used on ground
vehicles by other nations.
NSL - It may not be the largest power in the human sphere of influence,
but
it has been recognised as the most effective. Drawing on over three
centuries of stalwart naval traditions they have forged a fleet who's
level
of training, morale and supply is enviable. Chancellor Koenig's distrust
of
electronic defenses and simple minded grasp of tactics may have been the
political motivation behind the move during the mid-2160s which saw the
vessels of the NSL restricted to the equivalent of ballistically
equipped
tortoises. Yet the mechanical-engineering brilliance of Kurt Weyl, a
member
of their design team since graduating top of his class from the
University
of Gottingen in 2163, has turned what could have been a disastrous
constraint into an unmitigated advantage.
OU - The standing of Australia and New Zealand as 'Western' powers did
not
immediately translate into an OUDF the equivalent of all their old
Earthbound allies. It has taken sometime to carve out their own large
scale
naval yards and associated expertise and the latest generation of ships
are
really the only ones which were truly developed and built within the OU.
The
OUDF may be relatively lacking in military might and long-term combat
experience, having avoided involvement in any protracted warfare, but
the
various traditions and idiosyncrasies of the peoples of the various
islands
of the Pacific have given rise to the best navigators and the most
hospitable, enduring and colourful crews in human space.
PAU - The PAU has an undeserved reputation as a 'poor mans' navy. They
have,
until recently, depended on buying their fleets in a pre-loved condition
and
have suffered accordingly. This all changed when Andre Mombeki was
elected
the parliamentary head of the PAU. By 2177 he had negotiated for and
received confirmation of an agreement for a new built-to-order
battleline,
including 5 of the ESU's Rostov BDNs. It had been intimated that the
political machinations behind the agreement involved Mombeki claiming to
be
in the possession of compromising material involving the ESUs Secretary
of
the Interior, the Commander-in-Chief of the VKF as well as their four
most
senior defense advisors. Mombeki's memoirs, which were finally released
by
the censors in mid-2187 eighteen months after he was assassinated by IF
operatives, explain away these accusations in his usual quick witted and
whimsical fashion:
"With regard to my part in the Naval modernisation scheme, I can only
say
that I do not and never have had any incriminating evidence regarding
any
ESU officials and if anyone has mistakenly got the impression that I did
then I am deeply sorry for any embarrassment or inconvenience."
It is probably worthy of note that the ESU administration has made no
formal
statement about Mombeki's memoirs and that the only comment made on the
matter was by ex-Secretary of the Interior Pavel Talenikov from his home
in
the Procyon system, where he has lived in self-imposed exile since he
resigned 'to spend more time with his family' in 2178. When asked about
the
matter by a report from ISN, simply said "Cunning bastard".
It is predicted that the next decade will see a revolution in the way in
which the PAU is viewed. The expansion, capitalisation and restructuring
that Mombeki began has not been derailed by the IFs attempts at
destabilisation through terrorism and the PAU are well on the way to
revitalising their position in the grand scheme of things.
RH - The RH are haunted by the spectre of their terrestrial neighbours
and
cousins. Having been brutally deposed by communists once the Tsars have
no
desire to go through that again. Reliable sources suggest that the
Romanov
crews are ceaselessly bombarded with effusive, but effective, propaganda
remonstrating about how poorly off they'd be under the ESU or their
allies.
As a consequence ships from the RH forces are all rated one morale grade
higher when facing the ESU in combat and will not strike their colours
under
ANY circumstances.
SK - The SK is another nation more renowned for its soldiers than its
sailors, but never-the-less their dogged determination and never-say-die
prevails despite their often inadequate equipment. The association of
the SK
fleet with lethal raids on isolated colonies and ship plundering may
have
become a part of popular culture, but as yet it is an unsubstantiated
claim
- this may simply be because they leave no witnesses. Whether due to
their
crews' immersion in fanaticism or as a consequence of compensating for a
lack of free resources they are creative, capable and quite aggressive
once
in combat. On a human level, down and dirty knife fights seem to be most
to
their liking.
SWISS - Still renowned for making some of the finest machinery and
fighting
men, SWISS made vessels have incredible levels of reliability. The SWISS
still maintain their neutral stance, adopted centuries ago, but this is
more
a mechanism for staying out of the draining Solar Wars. Like the FCT
they
make sure that anyone who attempts to take advantage of their civilian
transport convoys will regret their actions.
UN - All member nations are required to make some material or economic
contribution to the infrastructure of the UN. However, having learnt
from
the crippling dependency of predecessor agencies the current incarnation
of
the UN also has economic and territorial holdings of its own. This above
anything else makes the major, if not all, powers suspicious of the UN's
true motivations. As yet this has not effected the member nation's
compliance with UN decrees, but then it hasn't tried to step-out of the
core...yet. The alien incursions may well make or break the UN, will
humanity unit under a blue flag or shatter as each looks after their own
interests? Either way UN clashes against any alien attempt on
core-worlds
should be illuminating, after-all it is rumoured that the plasma-torpedo
was
just one of the UN's top-secret weapons programs and that was 2 decades
ago...
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From: Beth.Fulton@csiro.au
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Subject: RE: [FH] IF, PAU, FSE and ESU (was RE: [OT] Frog Bashing)
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G'day,
> Umm. . . latent anti-colonial sentiment?? Who knows?
I reckon at least some part of it might try and "throw off their ESU
overlords" and that it would be an interesting theatre
to consider for on Earth SG stuff. They'd certainly have the manpower
available.
Cheers
Beth
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From: "Robin Paul" <Robin.Paul@tesco.net>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References: <20020530003435.4854.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [FH] IF, PAU, FSE and ESU (was RE: [OT] Frog Bashing)
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 02:12:06 +0100
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----- Original Message -----
From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [FH] IF, PAU, FSE and ESU (was RE: [OT] Frog Bashing)
>
> --- Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:
SNIP
> > By the same token I think the FSE is a lot more than
> > just the French and it
> > would be good to explore this mix more. I know there
> > are some out there that
> > have gone for Italian, Spanish etc themes to their
> > FSE fleets, has anyone
> > done that for DS/SG too or do you think they would
> > be more integrated than
> > that?
>
> Probably pretty integrated--units will likely retain
> national designations (eg, 4th Italian Mechanized
> Brigade or something) but in the name of operability
> it will probably be on the level of varient paint
> schemes and perhaps vehicular grafitti in the national
> language.
FSE Bersaglieri mech infantry, with cockerel feathers on the side of the
helmet, would be a reasonably easy starting point for space Italians. I
suppose some PA could be called Arditi, too, as some of them used
body-armour in WW1. Another item would be a stylish open-topped
Sahariana
version of the ACGI.
Rob Paul