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Re: "Education" System, was Re: [SG] HAMR

From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@q...>
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:15:36 -0500
Subject: Re: "Education" System, was Re: [SG] HAMR

If y'all are continuing this thread, could you do so offlist?
From - Mon Apr 01 10:01:04 2002
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From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" <aebrain@webone.com.au>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References: <3c9a7d00.629a.0@webone.com.au>
<20020322102740.GB10844@firedrake.org>
Subject: Re: Recon, Scouts and Battle Phases
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:23:30 +1100
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From: "Roger Burton West" <roger@firedrake.org>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: Recon, Scouts and Battle Phases

> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:24AM +1000, Alan E Brain wrote:
> >They ran into the hasty minefield I'd laid and stopped dead,
> >waiting for the engineers. Bad Move.
> 
> This is what minefields are _for_, isn't it? Not to kill the enemy,
but
> to slow them down and maybe get them to go a different way.

Yes, it's just that I was surprised that he fell for it. Had he
continued
on regardless, sure he would have taken losses, but nowhere near as many
as he did by stopping in a fire sack. And he certainly would have done
more damage by over-running the first of 3 lines of defence.
As it was, the 3rd line was able to manouver as an impromtu reserve, and
the second able to go into hasty-attack mode sooner than I'd believed
possible.
From - Mon Apr 01 10:01:05 2002
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From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" <aebrain@webone.com.au>
To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
References: <NEBBKHJJGLHNIADBJKHLKECLCNAA.rmakowsky@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Scouts..... 
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:25:45 +1100
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From: "Bob Makowsky" <rmakowsky@yahoo.com>

> Actually I would put that down to a leadership and motivation problem,
not
> cowardice or stupidity.
>
> More likely they are so task saturated that they can only spend the
minimum
> on each task.  This would make their spot reports less than useful for
the
> engineers.

Not forgetting their mission might be to
a) Avoid contact
b) Get as much information as possible, bearing in mind a)

If the enemy is emplaced around the bridge in question, infiltrating a
force to measure the size of the trestle is trcky in broad daylight,
especially if you only have 20 minutes to be out of the area.
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From: "Alan and Carmel Brain" <aebrain@webone.com.au>
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References:
<E83E983C3EC9DD45A40B24C4BA3A60756AEA35@col1smx01.USE.AD.DLA.MIL>
<1016809619.3c9b4893b4f9e@www.fysh.org>
Subject: Re: FTL in SciFi was RE:
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:34:38 +1100
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From: "Katie Lauren Lucas" <katie@fysh.org>

> "A Fire Upon the Deep" is really, really good. Recommend that one.

Second that. Third and fourth it to. If you haven't read it, I envy
you, because you've got a treat in store. I put it up there with
"A Canticle for Leibowitz".
From - Mon Apr 01 10:01:11 2002
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From: "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: "Education" System, was Re: [SG] HAMR
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:37:57 -0800
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Mark Reindl wrote:

>As do some of my colleagues.  Speaking only for myself, I think it's 
>important
>to try to reach each student.

Again, I envy YOUR students.  I would still, however, suggest you are 
probably above average amongst your colleagues if that is truly your 
attitude.

>However, I'm enough of a realist to know that
>it's virtually impossible to do so for every single one.

Sadly, it should be a little more feasible, but I understand that
teachers 
aren't given the manpower or resources necessary.  You do what you can,
at 
least the good ones do, that's all we can ask.

> > Mind you, this is more a reflection on the administration system
than on
> > teachers, but that doesn't change just how useless it was to me.
>
>No it doesn't.  But if a teacher is at all cognizant of what's
happening in 
>the
>classroom, he/she ought to be able to pick up on that fact.  I can 
>definitely
>tell the difference between someone who's lazy and someone who
struggles, 
>mainly
>due to the fact that I use a variety of methods to teach my classes.

Again, further proof you're probably exceptional.

>It wasn't a snide remark at all, sorry if you took it that way.  It was
an
>attempt to point out to those who were commenting on this thread that 
>perhaps
>they ought to consider the possibility that some in the audience might 
>actually
>belong to the group upon which they wished to heap their ire.	And, if 
>you'll
>notice, I acknowledged that I might not have all of the information on
all 
>of
>you, and did indeed request that, so I fail to see the need for either
you 
>or
>John (who emailed me privately) to take me to task for that.  Might I 
>suggest
>that you read the entire post in the future, then comment on it?

Sorry I took it wrong, I took it to mean you simply thought I was
bagging on 
education without intending to do anything about what I believed.

>Now *that* is a snide comment.

Yes, it was.  I apologize, my dander was up by then.

The reason I stated it that way is because many
>people going into teaching, myself included, tend to have that view or
one
>similar to it prior to going into the field.

I may have a passion to become a teacher, but I have known enough
personally 
outside school and observed enough to realize that I've got my work cut
out 
for me.  But after what I went through, if I can help one kid not have
to go 
through the same thing, I'll be satisfied.

It was (and still is to some
>extent) a bothersome fact that no matter what I do, how I teach, how
hard I
>work, or how I interact with the kids, some are going to slip through
the
>cracks.  It pisses me off to see so much potential go down the drain,
but 
>it's
>going to happen no matter what.  I hope you're ready to deal with that,
but 
>I'll
>comment more on that below.

We're never ready for most of the heavy crap life flings our way.  If 
complete preparedness were a prerequisite, we'd be extinct, because no
one 
would become a parent, a teacher, a politician, a religious leader, a 
soldier.....

>Ah, no.  Nowhere did I state that an opinion formed as a student was
not 
>valid.

As I said, I knew that was not YOUR intended meaning, but it is sadly a 
perception that occurs.

>In fact, the whole frigging reason I asked if you had any experience
other 
>than
>as a student was to ascertain if anyone was either in or going into the

>field of
>teaching.  I've got no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but I'm afraid

>that you
>jumped the gun on that one.

Probably.  Again, my apologies.

I made no assumptions about anyone, I thought I
>made that clear.

Perhaps you did.  Sorry if I missed it.

>Well, I'm coming from the perspective of someone who has been (and
still 
>is) a
>student, and is a teacher.  As a bit of background,  My goal here isn't
to 
>bust anyone's chops, but to
>explain the reality of teaching and education.

A worthy record, you have my respect.  Let me give you some of my 
background.  I may not be experienced at teaching, but at life, I'm
getting 
at least to the second semester. ;-)

I struggled all through school.  Never earned decent grades, except for
one 
year in a private school.  After high school, I went to a small college
in 
the midwest, where I managed ater 2 1/2 years to get myself kicked out
for 
bad grades.  I proceeded to spend 5 years in dead-end jobs, until I got 
tired of my life and went back to school.  Returning to CC, I've managed
to 
maintain a 3.5+ gpa, staying consistently on the Dean's List.  
Unfortunately, I don't have the economic clout to attend full time, I
have 
to work and take classes on the side as I can.	I probably won't finish
my 
school 'till I'm almost 40.  So I'm not starry-eyed kid.  I may not know
how 
tough teaching is yet, but I do know how tough being an uneducated
worker 
is, and I'm sure as hell not staying where I am.

They don't (can't and shouldn't necessarily) know everything that goes
>on, so how can they make reasoned judgements about what is right and
wrong
>beyond their classroom?

They can't, but they sure as hell can make a fairly accurate judgement
about 
the effect things have on them, and that is where I was coming from. 
Let me 
use your following example to explain where *I* was coming from:

In that case, I'll refer you to my previous statement
>about expertise.  I realize I'm probably not being too clear here, so
I'll 
>try
>to put it into military terms (to clarify for myself if nothing else). 

>It's
>like the difference between a recruit and a combat veteran.

Actually, most of my comments at first were not on how I as a future
teacher 
expect things to be, but how I as a former struggling student with
special 
needs remember them and want to change them.   In your military example,
I 
was speaking neither as rewcruit nor veteral SOLDIER, but as the COB -
the 
kid who year after year had everyone tell him how bright he was, how
good he 
SHOULD be, but how disappointed they were in him, until it took me years
to 
figure out I wasn't a worthless piece of shit just because I didn't
perform 
up to others' expectation.  No matter how weary the veteran is, no
matter 
how good he is, he's still the armed soldier, and cannot understand what
the 
civilian caught in the crossfire feels like.

You're working towards becoming a teacher?  Kudos to you
>as well.  I am curious since you're working for your Masters if you
intend 
>on
>teaching at the secondary level, or community college.

That I am still working out in my own head and heart.

Should you decide to respond to this, I look forward to it.  But before
you
>do, realize two things.  First, I was in no way, shape, or form trying
to 
>pick
>on anyone, yourself included, for having opinions.  Nor did I make any
>assumptions about anyone, as I specifically asked about background in
my
>previous message.

You've made this clear and I apologize for my earlier reaction.

And second, always be willing to learn and challenge your own
>assumptions, whether you learn from students, administrators, parents,
or
>college instructors.  As I said, I've been doing this for ten years,
and 
>had
>that second lesson reiterated to me rather strongly just this last week
at
>school.  Finally, I would look forward to revisiting this discussion
with 
>you
>after you've had a few years of teaching under your belt.

As would I.

3B^2

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From: "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: "Education" System, was Re: [SG] HAMR
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:39:48 -0800
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>From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
>Reply-To: gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu
>To: <gzg-l@csua.berkeley.edu>
>Subject: Re: "Education" System, was Re: [SG] HAMR
>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:15:36 -0500
>
>If y'all are continuing this thread, could you do so offlist?
>

Sorry, I should have.  But I did owe Mark an on-list apology.

3B^2

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Subject: Re: We Were Soldiers
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:43:56 +1100
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From: "Flak Magnet" <flakmagnet72@yahoo.com>

> He also earned three silver stars while serving over there.

In Australia or the UK, they tend not to be so free as the US with
medals. In Vietnam, the Bronze Star in particular was awarded with
very little excuse - a unit would be allocated X of em every month,
even if in garrison duty.

But *THREE* Silver Stars? In WW2? And for an artilleryman?

I have a lot of respect for anyone who fought to make the world we live
in in WW2. But 3 silver stars... that's very impressive.

>  He was
> buried this past fall with military honors, I made sure to tell the
> funeral detail about his service, hoping it gave their task that day
in
> the cold, windy rain a bit more meaning.

Good on you. And thanks for telling me about him. 
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From: "Tomb" <tomb@dreammechanics.com>

> Interesting Story:

> So I picked a hill in the middle of the valley that was in a blocking
> position for them. They dug tank emplacements about 100m behind the
hill
> and on the hill line. (I figured if they only had an MG, being turret
> down wasn't a bad idea for them). I _knew_ that game-board features
draw
> arty. The safest place to emplace minis is in the middle of an open
> field. Hills, forests, and urban areas are magnets for attention.
>
> So, my M113 martyrs hid behind the hill. When the Russkys attacked, as
> predicted, they lambasted the hill. When they were done and their
attack
> was rolling forward, I moved the vehicles from the safe positions
behind
> the hill up to the hilltop positions. (zero losses from arty).

That's exactly what I did too. Almost - my positions were 250 metres
back,
but otherwise exactly the same. Defending a series of 3 parallel wooded
ridges.

> I then
> just sat there. Another thing about double blind: Any enemy vehicle
> draws attention.

Whereas I dismounted the infantry just before the force got to the
ridgeline.
Dragons are truly crappy weapons, but the infantry in the trees did
*not*
draw attention - the mixed smoke and HE from the FPF, and the mines,
seemed to distract the enemy sufficiently so they were able to use the
enemy
as target practice.

> The irony was at the time I was a reserve infantry private. I was
> leading, criticising (GM for scenario setup), and defeating players
who
> were officer cadets at RMC and West Point and there might have been
> someone from VMI there.

Surprises me not at all.

> Double blind is a whole other type of game and requires you to keep
> focused on running _your_ battle plan, identifying _real_ enemy
threats,
> and not getting bogged down in trivia or wasting your artillery/etc on
> strikes on non-existent forces.

Ah but in a *real* double-blind, you spend half your time figuring out
where
your own guys are. Requires multiple players, but you really see the
value
of having axes of advance from one unmistakeable landmark to another.

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