Re: S'V Seekers

Jaime Tiempo wrote:

 >>>It takes 2 mass to use a MT missile, It takes 3 mass for the drone
womb, 1
 >>>mass for the seeker, and whatever energy is finalised on. That's
already
 >>>more mass.
 >>
 >>Six MTMs = 12 Mass, 36 pts
 >>Six "seekers" + 1 Drone Womb = 9 Mass, 21 pts
 >
 >+ 6 mass for the generators if you go with 1 power, which won't
probably
 >be the final one. This makes it a minimum of 15 mass to get off 6
 >seekers.

I know that you've upped the bio-mass requirement, but let's stay with
the 
original version for a while longer in order to see why I got so
agitated:

If you include the +6 Mass for the generators, you must also include
parts 
of the engines (everything above thrust-2) and a bunch of beam weapons
on 
the *human* missile boat into the Mass devoted to the MTMs - because
that's 
what these SV power generators can do when they're *not* used to power 
missile growth: they generate extra thrust and/or beam firepower.
(Spicules 
and Screen nodes are the same Mass as PDSs and human screens.)

Mass spent on MT missiles doesn't generate any thrust, and it doesn't 
generate any beam firepower either. It also doesn't carry any extra MTMs

for a second-wave launch later on, but the Drone Womb and power
generators 
can grow a second "seeker" wave if there's enough bio-mass available and

the enemy hasn't closed the range.

Simple test of the original "seeker" variant: compare an SV "missile
boat" 
with its human equivalent:

Human fast missile boat:
TMF 24
NPV 86
Hull integrity 2
Thrust-6
FTL
1 FCS
6 MTM

Sa'Vasku "seeker"-launcher construct:
TMF 22
NPV 62
SV Engines
FTL
Biomass 8 (ie., 2 "hull" + 6 for one full "seeker" salvo)
6 power generators
1 Cortex Node
1 Drone Womb

If the "seekers" use MTM rules for movement etc., these two ships are 
pretty much equal - both can launch a single salvo of 6 MTMs/"seekers"
and 
little else. The SV ship can't maneuver in the turn it grows its
"seekers", 
but it is eminently capable of growing those "seekers" before any human 
ship gets within weapons range anyway - and a thrust rating of 7A on any

turn it *doesn't* grow "seekers" should allow it to get into attack 
position in spite of that one single turn without thrust.

The SV ship costs less than three-quarters of what its human equivalent
costs, for what is essentially the same capabilities.

Even if you reduce the human ship to an immobile satellite - ie.,
thrust-0 
and no FTL - the SV ship (which has full FTL capability and thrust up to

7A) *still* costs less!

Another comparison is with a thrust-6 human pocket carrier, with one
single 
squadron of torpedo fighters and nothing else:

Human pocket carrier:
TMF 18
NPV 63+36 pts for torpedo fighters = 99 pts
Hull integrity 2
Thrust-6
FTL

The torpedo fighters are more vulnerable to point defence fire than the 
seekers are, have to take a successful morale check in order to launch 
their weapons, and a torpedo fighter which manages to launch its weapon 
inflicts on average a little over one-third as much damage as a "seeker"

does (average damage 2.5 pts compared to 7 pts for the "seeker"). If the

"seekers" use fighter movement, the only advantages the torp fighters
have 
over the "seekers" is their minimal anti-fighter firepower and their
longer 
loiter capability - and that's not nearly enough to outweigh their far
lower
chance of attacking successfully and the far lower damage they can
expect 
to inflict with a successful attack.

BTW, this is why MT missiles will never get the same high mobility as 
fighters unless their cost and/or Mass increase by a near-astronomic
amount 
- with that much mobility each missile is worth roughly 3 times as much
as 
one Torpedo fighter with launch bay...	ie., around 30 points (not 
including hull and engines of the launch platform). At the moment, MT 
missiles cost 6 points each. With fighters currently being one of the
two 
main balance problems in FT/FB (the other being large ships), it really 
doesn't look like a good idea to introduce a system which is not only
head 
and shoulders, but also body and tail ahead of the fighters...

 >Yes but you need so many power points to produce something. You can
only
 >put so many generators on at once, so you're strike capabilities per
 >salvo is limited to how much power you have.

As long as you have enough power to grow at least *one* Womb-ful of 
"seekers" per turn, the strike capabilities per salvo is limted to how
many 
Drone Wombs you have. There's no requirement to launch the "seekers" on
the 
turn after they're grown.

Furthermore, while you "can only put so many generators on at once",
those 
generators can be used for whatever the ship needs to do at the moment -
as 
discussed above.

 >I don't think they will once the final stats are hammered out.

Keep hammering. The torpedo fighters are the closest official system to 
balance your current version of "seekers" against.

Regards,

Oerjan
oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."