Re: [DS, maybee SG] Odd questions

Glenn Wilson wrote:

> >> >2) No. Since they are different systems, You could not fire them
as
> >a
> >> >twin-mount. There seems very little reason to do mount both. If
you
> >> >could fire the Light, you could fire the Heavy, so why use the
> >lighter
> >> >missile?
> >>
> >>No, they are both the same system, just as a MDC/1 and a MDC/5 are
> >the
> >>same system.
> >
> >A MDC/1 and a MDC/5 are NOT "the same system" according to the
> >standard DS2
> >rules. This is explicitly stated on DS2 p.18, right-hand column,
> >second
> >paragraf from the bottom.
>
>This is correctly quoted.  In "straight' DS2 one activation, one weapon
>system/size.

>  In order to fire two weapons from a single
> >vehicle in a single activation, they need to be the same type *and
> >class*.
>
>Funny, I look at page 8 where the label clearly says  DIRECT FIRE
WEAPONS
>SYSTEMS (no shout, just a sub for Boldface type which I don't have...)
>
>Under it are the words "...a number of systems are described below..."
>followed by (Capitals	for Bold face type again)
>
>1) RAPID FIRE AUTO CANNONS (RFACS)...
>2) HIGH VELOCITY CANNONS (HVCS)...
>3) HYPER KINETIC PENETRATORS (HKPS)...
>4) MASS DRIVER CANNONS (MDCS)...
>5) HIGH ENERGY LASERS (HELS)...
>6) DIRECT FIRE FUSION GUNS (DFFGS)...
>7) GUIDED MISSILE SYSTEMS (GMS)...
>8) SALVO-LAUNCHED MISSILE PACKS (SLAMS)...
>
>Systems.  There is no distinction between sizes of a system there.

No? That's funny - when I read the bitz you snipped from the above
quote, I 
see:

"The RFAC is available in size classes 1 and 2 only."
"HVCs are available in size classes 3 to 5; ..."
"HKPs are available in size classes 3 to 5, ..."

...etc. Each of the weapon type descriptions mentions the size classes
in 
which weapons of that type are available.

The concept of different weapon Size Classes is defined in the section 
appropriately named "WEAPON SIZE CLASSES" on p.8, immediately before the

section you're quoting. This section begins: "Weapons are defined by
Size 
Classes in much the same way as vehicle sizes, ...".

>Your point, however,  is taken also from page 32 (caps for Bold face)
>
>MULTIPLE WEAPON MOUNTS
>
>where a multiple weapon mount *is* described (all bold face, caps as
>caps) as
>
>"...two (or more) weapons of the same type and class..."

Bingo. This is exactly the same phrasing as is used on p.18.

>where the assumption would logically be that "...type and class..."
>should be [ "...size and system..." or, more likely]  "...system and
>size..."  as the example "...two HKP/3s..." implies.  The editor must
>have missed that... <grin>

Yep. It should say "type and size class" (though in block letters) both 
here and on p.18. The terms "size class" and "size" are used
interchangably 
throughout the rules, but neither is interchangable with "type".

>The cases in my campaign where I bypass this is always at a cost and
with
>a "historical" reasoning.  I would not expect that kind of freedom in a
>tournament or non-campaign game.  But it is as frustrating as (change
>subject alert) not being able to do what historically was done in
Vietnam
>- fire the APSW (MG) and the Main Gun (90mm) at infantry in the  same
>(1-15 minute) turn.

In the 'Nam this fire usually occurred at Close Assault range, so is
only 
rarely covered by the direct-fire rules :-/

>Back to the original subject.
>
>In straight DS2 you *can* design such a turret but not fire both at the
>same time.  And (there*is* at least one valid design reason for that!) 
A
>DFFG/4 or 5 main weapon and a long range (36") anti-infantry weapon
coax
>mounted for one example.
>
>And systems, class, and size seem to be used intermittently
>interchangeably. <g>

No, "size class", "size" and "class" are used interchangably and not 
surprisingly refer to the size class (1, 2, 3, 4 or 5; occasionally 6 or
7) 
of the weapon or vehicle (as defined in the left-hand column of p.8). 
"Type" consistently refers to the operating principle (HEL, RFAC etc.)
of a 
weapon or tranny. A "weapon system" is one single gun or launcher, and
is 
completely defined by specifying its size class and its type.

Regards,

Oerjan
oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer.
  What you get out of it, depends on what you put into it."