Re: Now getting OT.... (was:Re: New Confederate States)

In message <38443707.3227734@smtp.interlog.com> agoodall@interlog.com
(Allan Goodall) writes:
> On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:12:36 +0000, Ground Zero Games
<jon@gzero.dungeon.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >Mmmmm.  A rather sore point for us English, as even in our own
country it
> >seems to be politically incorrect to be proud of being English (as
opposed
> >to British). Fine for Scots, Welsh etc. to fly their own flags, but
the
> >Cross of St. George (red cross on white field, the English national
flag),
> >and to some extent the Union flag itself, is now sadly synonymous
with
> >football hooligans and extreme right-wing thugs....	:-/
>
> That is REALLY too bad. As a Scot (and son of a Scots Nationalist) I
actually
> have no problem with the English being proud of being English. They
should!
> And the Scots should be proud of being Scots, and the the same for the
Welsh
> and the Northern Irish. And they should all be proud of being British. 

I think that's a very naive sentiment, Allan. Northern Ireland
has a great many people who have every reason not be proud of
being British, and frankly don't want to be.

If English national identity is fairly thin because there's ten
times as many of us as Scots. Yorkshire pride is more relevant
around my way than English pride... battling on about being
English will just get you funny looks.

> It's sad when a national symbol is co-opted...

I think this very exagerated, as is most woeful complaining about
"political correctness". No one has a problem when the Union Jack
is found propping up Ginger Spice's cleavage, or when the St.
George's Cross flys from a church tower, or whatever.

> >BTW, though everyone (Brits included) generally calls it the Union
Jack,
> >AFAIK that is technically the name for it when flown as a naval
ensign (ie:
> >on the jackstaff of a ship). In non-marine use it is correctly just
the
> >Union flag.
> 
> I believe you're right, although don't quote me on it! *S*

This is one that pedants can argue either way. There is no
Academie Anglais regulating our language, which is defined by it's
common usage. If everybody calls it the Union Jack, then it's the
Union Jack. I like the name, with it's colourful derivation and I
like the flag for it's aestetic qualities as well as it's history.

I also like pointing out that we've sneaked the (white) cross of
St. Denis (a French symbol) into it, with St. George stamped
firmly on top.

-- 
David Brewer