Re: [FT] Re: Small vessels and the Line of Battle

***
In Napoleonic times you'd bring a frigate to a fleet action
in order to read the admiral's signals and repeat them, but
that's not relevant to modern communications unless you want
to build rules to make it happen that way.

Jutland had destroyer and light cruiser squadrons engaging
each other, if I recall--the big boys were preoccupied with
each other, and probably would have had trouble hitting the
small fry anyway.

There was an action in WW2 in which the Americans had an
ambush.  Japanese fleet came steaming through a channel, USN
DD's on either side engaged with torpedoes while the
American heavy ships crossed the Japanese T and obliterated
them.
***

I believe the action Laserlight refers to, and there were
others similar, was during the battle of Leyte Gulf, and
contradicts, though only slightly, his first analysis.

The Japanese were moving a large battleship and cruiser
force at night through a relatively narrow straight at
night. The US commander strung his large ships across
a particularly narrow point they'd have to cross. Groups
of destroyers AND PT. boats hid to the sides as the
Japanese progressed up the straight.

Time and again, the smaller ships dashed out to attack
the larger ships with torpedoes, at first doing no
damage and receiving terrible in return. However, the
reports from those brave fellows kept the US commander
fully aware of the oncoming forces disposition. The carnage
when those picket US ships fired was terrible.

It should be noted that DD's were pressing the attack even
as the big guns of their own fleet were firing.

As for Jutland, there were several opportunities that
Jellicoe failed to press due to an apparent fear of those
torpedoes. The Grand Fleet was bottled up much of the time
in fear of submarines, and at Jutland, several times large
units turned tail, as the prop wash was supposed to lessen
the impact, the face of oncoming torpedo destroyer boats.

***
I can't think of an occasion (which may mean nothing as I'm
not a naval historian) when DD's were worth bringing to the
party--except for the threat of torpedoes.
***

When the Lister Bio comes out, I'll be notable in my absence,
being neither experienced personnel nor learned historian, so
you will be forgiven the temptation to totally ignore what I
say, or at least confirm for yourself. ;->=

If you mean that the deck guns were basically useless in a
large furball, I can't think of a counter example, but I
point out that that fear/use of torpedoes has been very
useful, often to finish off cripples, and the advent of
subs and naval air has the destroyers often used as
perimeter defense against both. And, of course, scouting and
shaking off the other 'fleas'.

The_Beast