Re: [FT][SG][DS] Canada, the US Civil War II, and the structure

Thomas spake thusly upon matters weighty: 

> On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:
> > Thomas spake thusly upon matters weighty: 
> > > a house of lords made up in this way would be relatively stable -
it would
> > > not change with every election 
> > 
> > Is there any accountability or recall?
> 
> under the RL UK HoL system, none at all. well, sort of. in principle,
the
> monarch could deelevate someone from the peerage, but i don't think it
> happens. there is something called the parliament act, which limits
the
> power of the HoL: for a start, the HoL can't stop a bill, just send it
> back to the HoC (house of commons) to be revised. furthermore, if the
HoC
> sends a bill up to the HoL three times in one session, it overrides
the
> HoL and the bill goes through.
> 
> since i propose the HoL to be the sole NAC legislative body, this is a
> problem. the peers are appointed by the monarch on the advice of the
state
> government (ie, chosen by the state government - the monarch will
never do
> something original), so maybe if the state government dislikes what
the
> peer is doing, it passes a motion to get rid of him, and the monarch
> obliges? this would have to be made quite tricky and unusual,
otherwise
> the HoL would lose much of its character. i'd say the proceedure
exists 
> but is seldom used.

Why not use parliament as is? They pass bills up to HoL? Actually, it 
strikes me you'd need to do something to deal with the various levels 
of concerns (local, state, area, planet, or whole-NAC). I'll think on 
this.
  
> > > > This is enshrined in the NAC Constitution
> > > a constitution? never!
> > 
> > Sorry, that won't work in something modern invented to include 
> > Canada, England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, South and Central
America, 
> > and the USA. Too many of us know about Consitutions and wouldn't be 
> > happy living in a place without one.  
> 
> i'm not so sure. does the EU have a constitution?

Not a country. It includes countries. Like the UN.

 what about NATO?

Same. 

 the EU
> has the treaties of Rome and Maastricht, but much of it has been
defined
> in other treaties, directives, agreements, etc. i suppose when i say
'no
> constitution' i mean 'no single written constitution'. i think the nac
> 'constitution' should be made up of the Anglo-American agreement which
> invited britain in after ACW2, the Anglo-Canadian treaty, the Treaty
of
> Oahu, the Cheyenne Proclaimation, the Governance Act, the Parliament
Act,
> etc. things are clear, but there is no single piece of paper at the
root.

That's painful. A joint consitution would be far better solution. It 
would enshrine your personal basic rights and responsiblities to the 
state. It would define the relationships between member states, and 
the methods of common governance. 
 
> besides, remember that most states will still have their own
> constitutions. i am sure the constitution of New England is highly
> regarded by its citizens, and the constitution of the Southern
Confederacy
> ("article 1: all citizens have the right to bear arms") equally so. if
the
> NAC is more along the lines of a confederation rather than a single
> superstate, as has been suggested, this seems quite tolerable.

I don't think so. I don't think the NAC is the EU. I don't think it 
is a strictly economic union. And if it must make military, 
political, and social decisions, fundamental rights and rules of how 
to govern must exist across the board. Otherwise it becomes 
administratively to complex and dies under its own administrivia and 
bureaucratica.
 
> > > i think avalon would gain member-state rights, with its own
palace,
> > > parliament, first minister and peers in the house of lords. the
other
> > > worlds would be governed as dependent territories, like the
falklands.
> > 
> > Avalon, on behalf of all the outworld colonies (till others get big 
> > enough to separate from this block).
> 
> that's another idea. yes, the outworld colonies could be part of the
> Kingdom of Albion, much like Guadeloupe and Martinique are overseas
> counties of France. of course, a few would be dependencies of Albion,
some
> dependencies of the UK or Canada, and some dependencies of the Crown,
> just to keep things badly organised :-).

Wow, I don't think the NAC could field the fleets and military we see 
in FB if it was that unorganized. And I'm not sure any other colonies 
are big enough to merit independent status. But it is something for 
me to think about. Thanks for the ideas. 

> Tom
> 
> 
> 
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Thomas Barclay		     
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Fax: (613) 831-8255

 "C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot.  C++ makes
 it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
 -Bjarne Stroustrup
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