Re: [DS] Tank designs was Re: [ds] Ogres

At 12:47 AM 11/17/98 -0800, John Atkinson wrote:

>>German engineers were NOT idiots.... :)
>
>Yes, they were.  Or rather, Porche was an idiot, and Hitler a bigger
>one.  

I would argue that Dr. Porsche did as good a job of executing one of Der
Fuhrer's stupid ideas as anyone could have.

Constructive criticism was _not_ considered a virtue at that time.

>You have to cross bridges during COMBAT operations.

You have to cross RIVERS during combat operations.

"Another problem that emerged from its weight, was that simply there
were
no bridges able to take the its weight. To overcome this problem Maus
had
to be provided with a "snorkel" arrangement which allowed it to submerse
to
the maximum depth of 8 meters."
<http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz7.htm#maus>

>OK, let's compare resource investment.  If you can kill a JS-II with an
>88mm gun, then why do you need anything bigger?  How many JS-IIs can
>USSR build for cost of one Maus.  Ever hear of diminishing returns? 
>Maus went past that line.  Long way past that line.  Of course, IMHO,
>building more Panthers would have been best way to use all the
resources
>that went into Tigers, King Tigers, Mauses, other "Supertanks", et al.

and

>Except that if I drop a 5 inch rocket on a force of Pz IVs, there are
some
>left.	I drop on Maus, and the only one you got is dead. Mass
production is
>good thing.

The old "quality vs. quantity" debate.	In concept, the Maus or an OGRE
or
any flavor of supertank (attempting desperately to wrench the thread
back
on-topic) is only sound PROVIDED that its size somehow confers virtual
invulnerability to the weapons of smaller, mass-produced vehicles.

At that point, no number of smaller, cheaper units can be considered
cost-effective, because they will always lose due to being outclassed. 
In
practice, however, this rarely happens; especially given the level of
technology available at the time of the Maus.

Historically, the realities of physics, technology and
cost-effectiveness
have tended to favor anti-tank weaponry over armor.  It would probably
take
a major shift in paradigms to change that.  For example, something like
BPC
from the OGRE universe; light enough to mount a lot of it, strong enough
to
resist the most commonly available battlefield weapons.

Jeff