Re: GZG DS2 Mikko: Genres for DS2.

Mikko Kurki-Suonio <maxxon@swob.dna.fi> wrote:
>>I doubt that any gaming company can afford to! That's what players
have
>> been used for!
>Except that no one (I know of) collects any *hard* data from players --
>just impressions and opinions.
    That's right. Would you play the same scenario ten times in a row
for a
game company? I wouldn't! I would just say, this _______ isn't any good
or
this is very good!

>WRG 1925-50 - I have the 70's edition, and frankly I like it because it
>was built to model the historical weapons instead forcing them into
>generic templates. E.g. the last time I checked the DSII-WWII rules, I
>recall they handled early war large caliber short barrel cannon rather
>poorly. In a historical game I want to see the difference between a
75/70
>and a 88/56 instead of having them lumped together as KEC/4's identical
in
>performance.
    The WRG rules model the differences so indifferently, that most
players
don't play in certain periods with some nationalities as they know that
certain combinations are ineffective, even though they were effective in
WWII. For example, early war German tanks can't destroy French and
English
tanks. Also, mid war German tanks can't destroy Russian tanks.

>Shockforce - fast, simple, easy to remember, no counters. Unlike most
>other games of its ilk, has complete construction rules so I can play
with
>my old space marines. The official background is patently stupid, but
>you're free to ignore it.
    Then why bother to play it? The construction rules for DSII are
quite
reasonable as well. As for counters, in DSII, if your force is all one
quality, you can eliminate the quality counter or only place quality
counters on the small portion of your force that is different. The
confidence counter is only needed to record when your unit is being
moved.
It can be left off, until needed if you're honest. Or you could put them
on
a separate sheet of paper, where your platoon organisation is.

>Warzone - really, if you ignore the super-duper-hyper crap, the basic
>rules are quite sound.
    I thought the twin engine, one man helicopter, particularly odd. But
you
can use SGII for this quite easily, or my Power Armoured Trooper rules
which
I'm still working on.

>>     So, what's your vision/setting/book/movie that you want? Let us
know,
>> maybe we can get to work in designing a good set of limitations that
are
>> believable.
>Well, personally I find guided missiles to be the most boring part of
>modern warfare.
    A GMS/H or GMS/3 that hits can spoil anyone's day. Be sure to avoid
them! Play with lots of blocking terrain. Blind them with smoke. Hit
them
with mine fields fired from artillery. Call in aerospace strikes on top
of
them. Fire artillery at them. Have a spare nuke in your inventory.
Assault
them with infantry after blinding them with smoke. Use combined arms.

>Let's say I want Hammer's Slammers. I can live with downgrading the
>powerguns (probably a good idea for game balance), but it just ain't
>Slammers if guided missiles are a-flying.
    Keep the powerguns as Jon Tuffley wrote them. Any missile that comes
flying towards Hammer's Slammers GEV's is automatically destroyed. The
CO
can mutter ironically, "They bought guided missiles to a Power Gun
fight?"
The crew can laugh in unison, as they track the missiles and detroy them
in
flight with quick main gun blasts. By the way, Hammer's Slammers fight
like
the US in the Vietnam War era.

>Let's say Star Wars. Erm... HELs and DFFGs only?
    Yes. Long supply lines means that GMS, artillery, HVC, HKP, and MDC
munitions are too expensive to transport. On call Star Destroyer orbital
artillery is available. Planetary field generators and easily available
nuclear dampers stop nukes. See "Star Wars: The Empire Strike Back".
    Add another weapon, called blaster or BL. RED and YELLOW validity,
with,
say, MDC ranges. Just for variety.

>Let's say Redliners. Needs rules for energy fields to begin with.
    Develop a device called a shield generator and give it a size
rating.
This rating is like levels of armour. Once the shield has been
penetrated,
the vehicle can be attacked and possibly destroyed. Next turn, the
shield is
restored, if the vehicle is still running. Adjust points cost and
capacity
to suit, based on literature descriptions of the energy field
generators. If
there is one in every vehicle, then it's as cheap as a weapon.
    Any other problems?

>Let's say Renegade Legion. The missiles are there, but they need
serious
>downgrading. Energy fields again.
    Use SLAM packs instead of GMS and point targets instead of area
effect.
The armour erosion rules that RL uses are a variant of DSII armour and
penetration rules. They are really a horrible system!
    Disallow GMS as being too hard to supply to forces across
interstellar
distances.

>Let's say Ogre. Needs tougher modular vehicles. Again, something must
be
>done about the missiles.
    Reduce GMS damage to 1 per size class. GMS/L = 1 chit. GMS/H = 2
chits.
Nuclear suppression dampers (see my site) negate nukes. Modular
vehicles,
make parts out of large vehicles, use level 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 armour as
appropriate. Assume no size penalty for ogres.

>Let's say Votoms or Appleseed or Heavy Gear. Actually, this might work
if
>people just take the walkers and ignore the fact that they don't really
>need to or that the points might be better spent elsewhere.
    Just use walkers. If someone brings on tanks, have the CO say, "they
brought tanks to a walker fight?", the platoon laugh in unison as before
the
tank has time to fire its weapon, the walker has plucked the turret from
the
tank! See my site for walker's removing turrets.

>Let's say Gundam or Macross. Total reworking of mecha rules needed.
    Oh, what modifications? Using fists or kicking? See my site. Mecha
in
space? Use Full Thrust and fighter rules or treat them as aerospace/VTOL
and
walker combination vehicles. Clubs/Swords for mecha? See my site.
    I haven't got any rules for a Mecha shield, yet. Shall I work some
out?
Shapechanging: mecha has ability of new vehicle type at start of next
turn.

>Let's say anything by Johji Manabe. Needs weird biotech (we'll ignore
the
>babes with swords bit).
    You could always use Nuns with Guns instead! Biotech: regenerates
sensor
down and immobilise results by start of next turn. Magical beams as HEL,
DFFG or PowerGun.

>Let's say Starship troopers the book.
    Play Star Grunt II, but allow the starship trooper GMS teams to fire
nuke shells. Allow PA to jump 500m? at a time. Disallow vehicles. Rico
says,
"They brought tanks to a PA fight?", the squad members go to ground,
laughing, as Rico fires a nuke into the tank assembly area.

>Let's say Northworld. Now that's really tricky... needs energy fields,
the
>power armor stuff is probably better done in 25mm, the lizards got
weird
>biotech... a wide variety of stuff.
    Use above modifications and play SGII.

>Let's say... dare I say it? WH40K. Yes, the current edition is patently
>stupid, but the old Rogue Trader background has some nice points and
the
>basic minis are cheap and plentiful (especially the discontinued ones).
>It is NOT a good way to win an old Epic gamer for DSII by having him
lose
>a match because Land Raider is essentially a WWI tank design.
    Yes, but can you suspend your disbelief long enough? There are
several
conversions to DSII on the net. One that I have from another author
covers
everything that GW manufactured in 1/300 or Epic scale.

>Hmmm... now that I think of it, I can't recall a *single* science
fiction
>story with combat that plays like DSII. They probably exist, yes, but
>either I've never read one or it didn't leave any lasting impression.
    Your books seem to deal mostly in things probably best covered by
SGII.

No doubt I've missed something, but then I haven't read/viewed all of
the
source material.

Andrew Martin
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