Re: GZG DS2 Mikko: Genres for DS2.

On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Andrew Martin wrote:

>     http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/FUDGE/

As I get older, Fudge-style of gaming appeals more and more to me. I
don't
have the time and energy to memorize a 300-page rulebook anymore.
 
>     I doubt that any gaming company can afford to! That's what players
have
> been used for!

Except that no one (I know of) collects any *hard* data from players --
just impressions and opinions.
 
>     If you do find something that covers ultramodern and futuristic
warfare
> better than DSII (other than the real thing available to John Atkinson
:-)
> !), PLEASE let us know! But I don't think you will be able to!

Well, the thing is, I don't really care for the "M-1 Abrams with laser
cannon" style of ultramodern warfare found in DSII. I did my time in
grays, and frankly my interest in (gaming) modern warfare is pretty much
zero. I game either historical wars in times before I was born, or
something comfortably scifi far future. 

Let's see some alternatives:

Ogre miniatures - a whole lot faster, a whole lot easier to remember the
rules and does, well, Ogres a whole lot better. No counters on board. 
There are things about it I don't like, but it has its advantages over
DSII.

Generic Legions - FREE, fast, simple, easy to remember rules. Admittedly
not very realistic, and too many dice rolls. This is what I'd use for
Star
Wars -style futuristic combat. No counters on board.

Mecha carnage - Does the mecha genre MILES better than DSII. Well, it
was
purpose-built to, so I'm not blaming DSII, merely stating a fact.

Mecha! - ditto, but has its own share of faults.

WRG 1925-50 - I have the 70's edition, and frankly I like it because it
was built to model the historical weapons instead forcing them into
generic templates. E.g. the last time I checked the DSII-WWII rules, I
recall they handled early war large caliber short barrel cannon rather
poorly. In a historical game I want to see the difference between a
75/70
and a 88/56 instead of having them lumped together as KEC/4's identical
in
performance.

Shockforce - fast, simple, easy to remember, no counters. Unlike most
other games of its ilk, has complete construction rules so I can play
with
my old space marines. The official background is patently stupid, but
you're free to ignore it.

Warzone - really, if you ignore the super-duper-hyper crap, the basic
rules are quite sound.

General Quarters - Does WWI(I) naval a whole lot better than FT.
Ofcourse,
it was built to. Fast, easy. The only naval game I've seen with
manageable
yet somewhat realistic torpedo rules.

Shipbase III - ditto, but with far more detail and slightly slower play.
Requires a computer though...

>     So, what's your vision/setting/book/movie that you want? Let us
know,
> maybe we can get to work in designing a good set of limitations that
are
> believable.

Well, personally I find guided missiles to be the most boring part of 
modern warfare.

Let's say I want Hammer's Slammers. I can live with downgrading the
powerguns (probably a good idea for game balance), but it just ain't
Slammers if guided missiles are a-flying.

Let's say Star Wars. Erm... HELs and DFFGs only? 

Let's say Redliners. Needs rules for energy fields to begin with.

Let's say Renegade Legion. The missiles are there, but they need serious
downgrading. Energy fields again. 

Let's say Ogre. Needs tougher modular vehicles. Again, something must be
done about the missiles.

Let's say Votoms or Appleseed or Heavy Gear. Actually, this might work
if
people just take the walkers and ignore the fact that they don't really
need to or that the points might be better spent elsewhere.

Let's say Gundam or Macross. Total reworking of mecha rules needed.

Let's say anything by Johji Manabe. Needs weird biotech (we'll ignore
the
babes with swords bit).

Let's say Starship troopers the book. 

Let's say Northworld. Now that's really tricky... needs energy fields,
the
power armor stuff is probably better done in 25mm, the lizards got weird
biotech... a wide variety of stuff.

Let's say... dare I say it? WH40K. Yes, the current edition is patently
stupid, but the old Rogue Trader background has some nice points and the
basic minis are cheap and plentiful (especially the discontinued ones).
It is NOT a good way to win an old Epic gamer for DSII by having him
lose
a match because Land Raider is essentially a WWI tank design.

Hmmm... now that I think of it, I can't recall a *single* science
fiction
story with combat that plays like DSII. They probably exist, yes, but
either I've never read one or it didn't leave any lasting impression.

-- 
maxxon@swob.dna.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio) 	   | A pig who doesn't
fly
+358 50 5596411 GSM +358 9 80926 78/FAX 81/Voice   | is just an ordinary
pig.
Maininkitie 3C14 02320 ESPOO FINLAND | Hate me?    |	      - Porco
Rosso
http://www.swob.dna.fi/~maxxon/      | hateme.html |