RE: SG2 Vehicle Questions

Glover, spake thusly upon matters weighty: 
> "perform correctly??" as far as I'm concerned they already pretty much
> perform correctly in Jon T's 23rd century.

I agree with your comment on vehicle on vehicle and ranges on the 
board. I have to disagree with this one though. The mere idea that my 
combat vehicle (any class, don't matter), can only cover 480m (and 
that only if NOT firing) in 5 minutes is ridiculous, when the 
infantry can cover 240m. Now, the argument advanced is something like 
"the driver is looking around, picking routes, etc. etc. " which 
makes me wonder why have a crew of 3 or 4? Isn't the looking around 
etc mostly the commanders task (hence why he shouldn't be gunning). 
And assume my tank wants to sprint from behind one copse of trees to 
another 500m away full tilt because I'm worried about enemy fire... 
This could easily take me 5 minutes or 10 minutes at the time scales 
we're talking about. I'm thinking since some armour can exceed 50 
kph, that sprint should take me about 1 minute (call it two if 
accelerating) AND I can probably fire on the move. And if I kept the 
pedal on the mat, I could probably be 4000m downrange, rather than a 
max of 480m. I don't THINK it is really fair to say vehicles are 
treated 'correctly' if one is looking for the simulation side. They 
are treated in a way which keeps them balanced, and retains an 
infantry focus. If I posit grav tanks capable of sprints up to 250kph 
for example, that d12x2" (average 13", or 260m in a double combat 
move) looks kind of silly in a 5 minute period, especially since if 
my other copse of woods is 500m away, I'm left hanging in the open. 
(Which probably wouldn't happen to a grav tank that can sprint to 
even 50kph let alone 250....). So it isn't quite fair to say vehicles 
are treated in such a way to reflect real performance. 

But (OTOH), I do agree DS2 is the place for vehicle to vehicle armour 
combat. Vehicles are indeed mostly a force multiplier or fire support 
on a SG2 board (unless you have hills and other impassible and 
LOS-blocking terrain to make the weapon ranges not a big factor. 

> We use vehicles in quiet a few scenarios (at our club Open Day in May
we
> had a full mounted NSL Panzergrenadier Company - 16 APCs in all!!) and
> so far we haven't found the need to modify vehicles and weapon
systems. 

But it obviously doesn't bug you that a vehicle can't move and shoot 
using stabilized weapons or that the vehicle movement rates are so 
handicapped? You can't even sprint! Assault gun tactics (to go to a 
WW2 model) just won't work... you can't fire and then get away in a 
five minute turn!
 
> The other point is that Trevor Dow started this thread with a query
> based on his 'Aliens' style APC. This has the twin turreted PPGs and
> twin turreted SAWs. This is a VERY heavily armed APC and is driven by
a
> Synthetic Person!! All of the standard vehicles in SGII rules are far
> simpler in design than this and are a better guide to typical vehicles
> in SG.

It is a heavily armed APC, but I don't see it as out of this world. I 
did my version of the design and considered it to have twin linked 
SAWs and either a DFFG/2 or twin DFFG/1s. That's tough. But it isn't 
out of comparison with a bradley (GMS/L or GMS/H) and an RFAC/1.  And 
the phalanx has twin turrets with HELs(?). So I don't think its out 
of the ballpark for SG2 vehicles. Nor, when I reference the bradley, 
is it out of line with modern IFVs. Note I said IFV not APC. Modern 
APCs are truly IFVs and have a lot of firepower that they can 
deliver. I'm not sure about stabilization of the main arms on APCs (I 
know tanks have two and three axis stabilization), but it seems to me 
they have (in the real world) high speed and the ability to fire the 
main gun (if not missiles) while moving. These characteristics do not 
(to me) seem to come across in the battles I've seen vehicles in. 
(Perhaps I need more experience). I'm not saying I want 
microarmour.... I'd rather play infantry games....but I'd also rather 
not claim vehicles are 'accurately represented'. 

Tom.  
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